Freethought & Rationalism Archive

rhutchin · 05-10-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storytime

Who did Jesus consider his enemies? Did he accuse the Romans of disobeying his Jewish laws? Did he consider Rome to be his household? No, for Romans were not considered as sons of Jacob called Israel. And Jesus was not sent to any people but his own household. "I am sent to none but the lost sheep in the house of Israel." Also, he wasn't sent to the righteous in Israel but the sinners who were transgressors of the law of Moses given only to the Israelites. All in the household of Jacob-Israel. You can try to fit the whole world into this story but it just doesn't fit.

Jesus said, "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44)

His enemies were those who cursed Him, hated Him, despitefully used Him and persecuted Him.

Jesus was sent to His own household, the Jews.

After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him." (John 7:1)

steamer · 05-10-2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

This is not the only demand that is placed on the Christian. For example, Paul says, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. "(1 Timothy 5:8).

Jesus did not know Paul. In your view, do the words of Paul supplant the words of Jesus? Paul's words are full of worry. (God may not provide as Jesus said, so you better take care of your own first.)

steamer · 05-10-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imnotspecial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

How do you know when Jesus was using hyperbole? Is the whole Bible hyperbole?

No, common sense tells you when. Even if we don't like Jesus it should not mean that he was a total idiot. Why do atheists ask so often questions that make us look silly?

When did you appoint yourself the atheist minister of silly looks? Honestly, when the subject material legitimizes questions like "Do snakes and donkeys really talk or do they use telepathy?"; how can you ever tell when something looks silly?

bacht · 05-10-2010, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enemigo

I posted a link to this site in the humor forum, but I thought it'd be worth posting here as well in order to discuss the issue more seriously:

http://givetome.org

Basically, it focuses on Jesus' exhortation to his followers in the Sermon on the Mount and the Sermon on the Plain to "give to every man that asketh of thee"(Luke 6:30), while soliciting donations from Christians. Is this an orthodox understanding of Jesus' teachings or do most Christians think Jesus meant something other than what he clearly said?

This is the problem when you've got a movement apparently started by a Jewish Cynic (or apocalypticist) that gets taken over later by the mainstream. Ordinary believers simply can't abandon their families and possessions, so the church has to allow for some fudging.

Splarnst · 05-10-2010, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve_bnk

In exchage they get lifetime room and board, medical care, and retirement. Not a bad deal in the down economy.

I don't care how bad the economy is, I'm never trading my freedom (mental, physical, sexual, etc.) for security.

rhutchin · 05-10-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steamer

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

This is not the only demand that is placed on the Christian. For example, Paul says, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. "(1 Timothy 5:8).

Jesus did not know Paul. In your view, do the words of Paul supplant the words of Jesus? Paul's words are full of worry. (God may not provide as Jesus said, so you better take care of your own first.)

Paul said that he had been taught by Christ. He expanded on that which Christ taught.

Vampyroteuthis · 05-10-2010, 09:41 PM

Off to BC&H

Roger Pearse · 05-10-2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imnotspecial

Jesus was obviously using hyperbole. I don't understand why you even ask this question.

Malice, of course -- he hoped to amuse himself by getting some Christian to respond as you have done and then try and tangle you up in a series of conundra.

Be a little worldly wise, hmm?

You are of course, quite correct. But you didn't come here for a sane or rational response, I hope.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Huon · 05-11-2010, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhutchin

Paul said that he had been taught by Christ. He expanded on that which Christ taught.

Hem, hem... Paul expanded on that which Christ taught, and was understood and accepted by Paul.

The Christians still have to explain how a Jew who was crucified by the Roman power created a anti-jewish church.

General Disarray · 05-11-2010, 03:07 AM

I do indeed and you can contact my Earthly representative in pm to find out where to send the money.

Make cheques payable to Christ Aid Support Hospital. Or just CASH for short. I thank you.

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05-10-2010, 09:41 PM	#37
Vampyroteuthis Contributor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 14,915	*Off to BC&H*

05-11-2010, 03:07 AM	#40
General Disarray Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: London, England Posts: 166	I do indeed and you can contact my Earthly representative in pm to find out where to send the money. Make cheques payable to Christ Aid Support Hospital. Or just CASH for short. I thank you.

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