enemigo

I posted a link to this site in the humor forum, but I thought it'd be worth posting here as well in order to discuss the issue more seriously:

http://givetome.org


Basically, it focuses on Jesus' exhortation to his followers in the Sermon on the Mount and the Sermon on the Plain to "give to every man that asketh of thee"(Luke 6:30), while soliciting donations from Christians. Is this an orthodox understanding of Jesus' teachings or do most Christians think Jesus meant something other than what he clearly said?

Imnotspecial

Jesus was obviously using hyperbole. I don't understand why you even ask this question.

The sermon on the mount was in to emphasize that you need to do more than just follow the letter of the law.

Toto

How do you know when Jesus was using hyperbole? Is the whole Bible hyperbole?

Brad Gamma

The entire bible is one long sarcastic rant. Its the chandler of holy books.

Imnotspecial

No, common sense tells you when. Even if we don't like Jesus it should not mean that he was a total idiot. Why do atheists ask so often questions that make us look silly?

Do you think Jesus was really asking you to pluck out your eyes?

Toto

If the eye (or some other organ) is terminally diseased and threatens the health of the rest of the body, even modern medicine would excise it or amputate it. I think Jesus was using a common analogy here.

But what about Jesus telling people not to divorce, ever? to give away all of their money to the poor? to give money to anyone who asks? If it's inconvenient, can you just decide that it's not to be taken literally?

What exactly is the meaning of this hyperbole if it is not the plain meaning of the words?

Bullmoose Too

How much do you want?

Saramago

You mean he didn't really mean that part?

Shit. I am SO hosed. </joking>

Let's go through the Sermon on the Mount, looking at the things Jesus told his followers to do. Which of these did he mean literally, and in which was he using hyperbole?

Well, I DO see Christians doing this. However J meant it.


Metaphor, methinks.


I never did think that.


Well, again, I see some Christians acting like they think they're pretty righteous. But I have this suspicion that J had something different in mind than being supercilious and judgmental.


Oooh. Can you say "hypocrite"? (See Luke 11:40, where Jesus himself says "You fools!")(Edited to add: see also Luke 12:20, where God is quoted as saying "you fool", & 1 Corinthians 15:36, where in some translations Paul writes "you fool")


Gift, meaning sacrificial animal? Does this one still apply?


Seems like pretty practical advice. Must be hyperbole.


At least J doesn't say to cut your heart out, or to cut your penis off. All in all, this sounds pretty reasonable, given that it's an edict from the creator and moral head of the universe.


.Surely, this is one that Christians follow to the letter these days...isn't it?


Go, Quakers. They're the only ones taking this literally (AFAIK). Oh, and the nontheists.


I have never been sure whether "the other" means the left cheek, or the buttock cheek. Would it make a difference in sorting out whether J had a literal vs. nonliteral intention?


I have no problem with this one (not having either tunics or cloaks).


Well, it is a heart healthy recommendation!


And send me money, because I am asking, and J says you should. (Or maybe he only meant this to apply to churches & pastors asking you for money??)


Mmmm. Many Christians seem to find the first part hard to accomplish, but do well with the second part...if imprecatory prayer counts.


Another one that I see some Christians acting like they think they have accomplished (though they seem to feel they have to SAY that it's impossible).


Hyperbolic? Just don't let your pinky know what your thumb is doing? (Or don't let your spouse know what you are doing?)


Obviously one that some Christians gloss over.


Funny.


So, other types of prayer don't work or don't count?


Probably hyperbole.


Quick - how many Christians here put oil on their head when fasting?


At least in the US, the economy would collapse if all Christians actually followed this one.


I'm not sure this one is really advice from Jesus, but I do see better when I wear glasses, so I included it.


...There are a number of empiric trials of this claim being carried out, some of them on TV.


Literal? Hyperbole? What evidence for the latter - simply that it doesn't seem realistic, or comfortable?


Yeah, we all know how this one is understood by many Christians.


Metaphor.


Taken literally, this is good (if not often needed) advice.


IMO, false advertising.


Literal?


Probably metaphor...unless someone knows whether there would have been a reason one would literally want to choose the narrow gate, say into Jerusalem or into the Temple, or on that Monty Hall game show.


Watch out for hypocritical "family values" Christians...by them actually being fruits (or at least scumbags) you shall know them.


"Everyone" should "put" "these words" "into practice". Not a breath about how one should consider the metaphor, or use the hyperbole as a learning tool but not literally follow what J was instructing.

But presumably someone will claim to be a "true Christian" who can discern literal instruction from hyperbolic. Anyone?

steve_bnk

I've heard TV evangelists essentialy say god wants you to contribute money to me.

Imnotspecial

Now you made me get up and get that damned book and look up the exact wording. " If your right eye should cause you to sin, tear it out and throw it away....." Jesus was not talking about health-care here.

I am not at all defending everything Jesus has supposedly said. Otherwise I might be still a follower of his. He did in fact say a lot of stuff that made no sense. Catholics still take Jesus literally when it comes to divorce - and there is value to this teaching. (Catholics don't say that you have to stay together with a real asshole or bitch, but they are mean enough to never let you marry again. Kind of a punishment for making a stupid choice the first time around.)Most Prots allow divorce more easily but still regard it as only a last choice)
There are people who take Jesus literally when it comes to giving all their possessions to the poor. They are usually connected to a religious order, but there are also individuals like the Focolarini who pledge poverty, not quite as strictly though. In both cases they have the security of the group. From what I have experienced none of them ever complained about not having his needs taken care of.
They all believe that their God will take care of them. Hard to argue with them when they don't look emaciated.
The Church however does not require the literal interpretation of its members - nice of them, right?

To your last point. I take the meaning to be that you don't have to give to those who just want to test you, but don't refuse those who genuinely ask you for the value of a meal or something to wear to make it through another day. Do I need to point out that it does not mean that you can fill up your bank account just by asking others for money. Generally speaking there is not a wide latitude to misinterpret some of these sayings. Common sense usually figures it out right.