Freethought & Rationalism Archive

primitivefuture · 10-07-2006, 01:11 PM

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If god is omnipotent, then why can't he make himself visible to us? And if god is loving, why would he be so secretive?

Because God is beyond our perception. If you create a robot, the knowledge and action of the robot is limited to what YOU program in it. I also dont see the relation between love an being secretive. God loves those who believe in him (or try to at least), and he answers to those who call for Him. The more you believe and pray to him, the more you'll realize His existance.

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In 1Sam 21, David had been escaping from Saul. So how could he claim in verse 3 that "The king hath commanded me a business"?

How does that indicate David was a liar? I'm not a Christian so I cannot explain any verse from the Bible, but I'm sure you're in a misconception. David had a good soul.

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Then how come Moses reported seeing him, and some other fellas too? Well does he manifestate himself or not? If not then, Moses' reports are utter b******t.

It's impossible to see the entire of God. Also, since I'm Muslim, I belive Moses did not see God at all. As a Muslim, I do not belive in the Torah.

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But then again maybe there were many manifestations of YHWH back then but I guess now he has changed his marketing agent Well we'll never know

God had/has no manifestations. If He did, I'd be asking the same question you asked me!

aguy2 · 10-07-2006, 02:55 PM

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Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Our ranks are not determined by individual understandings of esoteric sayings.
Some having a gift of knowledge and understanding may somewhat comprehend the reasons and the ends of symbolic writings, but such gift of interpretation is not a requirement upon all, indeed as I have stated previously, our ranks are composed of the weak, of those whom the wise in their own eyes reject, the innocent children who have not yet learned to read nor to be high minded, striving about words, the simple minded and the mentally handicapped, the illiterate and the innocently ignorant, all whom find no favor in your sight, these are they for whom our Redeemer has spoken; Redeeming them who are unable to redeem themselves.
The rest of us who believe ("AMEN"), are received into those ranks of our weaker brethren, being accepted and justified of Elohim by our expressed belief ("Amen") in Him, and by the sacrifice of our lips ("Amen") as it is written;
"And all the people shall say; "Amen". We being thereby made one people, a people of "Faith" ("Amen"), as in the day that Moshe instructed the children of Israel in this matter, all were enjoined to speak only One Word; "Amen" alone, the wise and the learned being given to speak no other self-justifying words above nor beyond the weakest and the most ignorant amongst the ranks, and a man spoke for his own household, for the suckling infant, for his simple minded brother, and for his senile father. Such is The Faith, (The"Amen") of our Redeemer, whose Word is "Amen" evermore.

As for the sayings concerning "seven heads", if a "believer" -"believes"- ("amens"), the sayings, the only logical thought process for that believer is to accept the "truth" ("ameth") being expressed by the sayings; So say you, so do you, being of a single mind, thought, word, and deed agreeing in One, Amen.

A "believer" ought to -"believe"- ("Amen") the record of The Scriptures; Yahweh Elohim has control over all weather processes, and indeed over all of reality.

Amen

Amen

"lo'amen"

See to it then that you do not, lest you be revealed as a naked liar by your own words.
But laugh, and continue to mock, It requires no great gift of prophecy to predict your conduct.

You invoke the name 'Amen' 15 times, but you did not respond to my last post.
aguy2(amen)

Anat · 10-07-2006, 03:15 PM

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Originally Posted by primitivefuture

How does that indicate David was a liar? I'm not a Christian so I cannot explain any verse from the Bible, but I'm sure you're in a misconception. David had a good soul.

One does not have to be a Christian to read the Bible. A book is a book. Read 1Sam 19 where Saul announces his intent to kill David and the latter escapes. Continue to chapter 20 where it becomes clear to David that Saul indeed seeks to kill him. Then continue to chapter 21 and ask yourself if David could have been honest when he presented himself as on the king's business?

He may have had a good soul, whatever that is, but his actions as described are often dishonest and dishonorable.

Sheshbazzar · 10-07-2006, 05:13 PM

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Originally Posted by aguy2

You invoke the name 'Amen' 15 times, but you did not respond to my last post.
aguy2(amen)

Originally Posted by Loomis
Hey Sheshbazzar ,
How would you rank a person who has faith that the “adversary” has seven heads? Is this an illogical thought process?
Sheshbazzar in reply;
"Our ranks are not determined by individual understandings of esoteric sayings......"

My response was to Loomis's query.
Your original question was ambiguous to me, If you desire a reply, please restate your question with clarity.

aa5874 · 10-07-2006, 05:27 PM

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Originally Posted by primitivefuture

Because God is beyond our perception. If you create a robot, the knowledge and action of the robot is limited to what YOU program in it.

If God is beyond our perception, then He must also be beyond yours. You, therefore have no knowledge of God and are giving information that are likely to be erroneous and mis-leading.

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Originally Posted by primetivefuture

I also dont see the relation between love an being secretive. God loves those who believe in him (or try to at least), and he answers to those who call for Him. The more you believe and pray to him, the more you'll realize His existance.

You have already stated that God is beyond our perception, your statement cannot be verified to be true.

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Originally Posted by primitivefuture

It's impossible to see the entire of God. Also, since I'm Muslim, I belive Moses did not see God at all. As a Muslim, I do not belive in the Torah.

God had/has no manifestations. If He did, I'd be asking the same question you asked me!

Again, you have no idea what you are saying. You have no perception of God. It is not prudent to make claims which cannot be substantitiated, it makes you appear illogical.

aguy2 · 10-07-2006, 07:04 PM

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Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

My response was to Loomis's query.
Your original question was ambiguous to me, If you desire a reply, please restate your question with clarity.

Do you realize how tedious it is to do your work for you in reconstructing my line of questioning?

You made a claim that 'Elohim' was all forgiving.
I asked if this claim would be inclusive of the 'Adversary'.
You agreed that it would.
I asked, "Would this mean that the relationship between 'Elohim' and the 'Adversary' was 'dynamic' (open to the possibility of change)?" In other words, if the 'Adversary' repented and was willing and able to make appropriate restitution, the 'Adversary' would be likely forgiven by 'Elohim'?

If you respond at all I imagine you will bury your response in a 'luff of fluff', but a straightforward 'yes', 'no', or 'maybe' would be all right with me.
aguy2(amen)

Sheshbazzar · 10-07-2006, 07:30 PM

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Originally Posted by aguy2

I asked, "Would this mean that the relationship between 'Elohim' and the 'Adversary' was 'dynamic' (open to the possibility of change)?" In other words, if the 'Adversary' repented and was willing and able to make appropriate restitution, the 'Adversary' would be likely for given by 'Elohim'?

In as much as the only information that we have on this "dynamic" relationship is that which is recorded within The Holy Scriptures, and as the ultimate end of this relationship is revealed as a foreordained conclusion, there is no allowance, likelihood, nor possibility of The Adversary repenting or making appropriate restitution, for to do so would be contrary to the very account of Scripture.
By Scripture (the only authoritative source on the relationship between YHWH and The Adversary) such a "dynamic" is an impossibility,Thus your question posits a Scripturally impossible scenario.
Straightforwardly then, the answer would be NO, because it is contrary to Scripture for any such reconciliation to take place.

QRUEL · 10-07-2006, 07:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Eldarion Lathria

As a general working rule, in the OT, if a man is referred to as 'a man after God's own heart', he is scum. There may be exceptions, but not many.

Eldarion Lathria

can you please start another thread with examples please

thank you

QRUEL · 10-07-2006, 07:46 PM

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Originally Posted by primitivefuture

It's absurd to twist verses to contend an immutable fact. David was a man of good chracter, and people should follow by his example. It matters to me since David is one of the few chosen by God to spread His revelation.

Because God has sent His revelations. NOBODY can see God, since He is beyond our perception (He created us after all). God also has no manifestations. God only answers to those who pray to him, something infidels will never understand.

what cool aide have you been drinking ? I want some.

primitivefuture · 10-07-2006, 07:58 PM

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what cool aide have you been drinking ? I want some.

I like a drink which is a mixture of honey and cold water.

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