Khatzek

It seems to me that whenever God likes someone, you can be pretty sure that person will do some messed up things.

* God has almost nothing but praise for David, even though he is possibly one of the most vile people in the bible.
* God filled Samson with his spirit, then Samson killed a thousand people.
* God thought only Noah was worthy to be saved... then came that wierd section where Noah makes all the "clean" animals go extinct and curses Canaan just because Ham saw him naked.

Can you give me some more examples of this wierd trend where the people who God likes generally act like lunatics? Moses might be one... does the bible have examples of God expressing satisfaction with who he is?

The more passage references to the bible you can give me the better. Thanks

Tigers!

Welcome to the forum :wave:

You'd better make sure that God doesn't like you then.

Sheshbazzar

Speaking as a Believer, this is my (our) take on this matter.
Part of the overall Scriptural lesson and theme, Is that if a person is unworthy, and willingly admits to being unworthy, and seeks YHWH's forgiveness for those all too human failings, then that "unworthy" person is fully forgiven and pardoned of all those things for which they would otherwise receive a just condemnation.
"Perfect" men have no need of forgiveness, and indeed cannot receive forgiveness, because having admitted to no faults, there is nothing requested to be forgiven.
Thus forgiveness and mercy is only for them who know themselves as being among the imperfect and unworthy.
The failings of the Fathers were recorded that we that believe might know that they likewise were all fallible in their generations, yet that in spite of their often evident failures in judgment and in justice, Elohim yet chose them to be examples of His mercy- because- of their faults, that through them, all men everywhere, who know themselves to have faults, and likewise be unworthy, might likewise attain to a confident hope in a fully sufficient measure of His forgiveness and mercy.
Elohim loves and provides for all, yet only those who are the recipients of His forgiveness and mercy, receive His favor, becoming exempt from the condemnation that is upon all.
This "favor", IS accessible to ALL, even to "whomsoever will".

aguy2

Would this include Satan?
aguy2

Alf

Well, Moses was a murderer and a stark raving lunatic before he went out in the desert and the sun did funny things with his head so that he thought he saw a burning bush claiming to be god or some such non-sense. Probably makes more sense when you know the exodus never happened and if Moses was a historical person he probably never saw a burning bush. Possibly the line about him murdering an egyptian is perhaps the only line that might turn out to be factually correct.

He is of course considered to be the author of the law that the jews followed and the basis for christianity's old testament etc etc.

Alf

Helpmabob

Paul, when he was still called Saul was the chief persecutor of christians. Yet after his conversion, later on he descibes himself as the 'chief of sinners'. No-one is perfect here on earth despite God's love.

Sheshbazzar

Opposition to the good promises is that which alienates The Adversary, and all adversaries from YHWH Elohim, whom is always ready to extend His mercy and favor to "whosoever will", even as many as are willing to accept it.
It is "Satan", The Adversary and his children that are resisting any reconciliation.
If "Satan" or any other "adversary" is excepted, it is only by their own rebellion and refusal of the offer.

Joan of Bark

Did Moses, David, or Solomon ever ask for forgiveness? I don't recall, but surely one must admit guilt before being forgiven.

Tigers!

One can have the possibility of being forgiven without realising it. Parents (like myself) do it for our children all the time. We are ready to forgive them but the child still needs to come to us seeking forgiveness. Once they admit their guilt they can have the forgiveness acknowleged.
As for David see 2 Sam 12:13 for one example of David admitting his need for forgiveness.
As for Moses he was not allowed to enter the promised land because of his sin.
A quick look found nothing for Solomon.

Anat

Solomon was punished by having his heir lose control of most of the country. (But again the whole part about his sins may have been the work of an anti-monarchic post-exilic author, and yet further, the whole characterisation of Solomon is likely to be mythical.)

There is also the aggadic legend about Solomon being dethroned by Ashmedai and being forced to wander the countrieside until being able to reclaim his throne. This wandering period supposedly was the time he composed Ecclesiastes.