arnoldo

It seems the "failed prophecy," which exists only in the imagination of the minimalist, rests upon the interpretation of the word "they."

Baalazel

Oh dear, are there people here who ignore your arguments Sugar? Pot, Kettle, Kettle, Pot.

Baal

Minimalist

Dear...dear...dear...


Here's modern Tyre...and they aren't even fishing with NETS.

Jack the Bodiless

Yet more desperate attempts to avoid the uncomfortable truth:
It was EZEKIEL who falsely "prophesied" the destruction of Tyre, not JEREMIAH (who was himself a false prophet, but for other reasons: Jeremiah "prophesied" the imminent destruction of BABYLON, not TYRE).

Classic diversionary tactics!
Already addressed. Ezekiel wasn't a military engineer, and he certainly wasn't a "prophet" either. He may have figured that this stuff would be taken across on barges, or that a causeway would be built (and, IIRC, some say that there was already a causeway of sorts, which the Tyrians later removed).
Still making stuff up? Ezekiel knew that Tyre was on the island, that's why he specifically did the very thing you're claiming he did NOT do. Ezekiel separates the mainland settlements from Tyre in his account, and describes Tyre itself as being a fortress on an island (in the midst of the sea, strong in the sea etc etc).
Repeating fabricated claims will not make them true. There is NO evidence that the mainland settlements had defensive walls: no historical evidence, no Biblical evidence (Joshua 19 says no such thing), and no archaeological evidence either (and this SHOULD exist if this claim had ever been true).
1 refers to the destruction of the mainland settlements. Everything after that was supposed to happen to TYRE ITSELF (the island). In particular, 5 is another outright fabrication, because the Bible says you're wrong (and I have pointed this out to you before). Nebby's forces FAILED to tread ALL the streets of TYRE.
False again. The "mainland city" still exists.
Again, already covered. The prophecy specifically refers to "walls" and "streets".
THIS NEVER HAPPENED.
...Except that (among other errors) ALEXANDER DID NOT DESTROY TYRE. Another inconvenient FACT that simply will not penetrate!
Still, the inconvenient FACT that Tyre made a complete recovery from Alexander WITHIN 2 DECADES, and later regained its POLITICAL INDEPENDENCE, is not penetrating!

And of course the "island of Tyre" does exist. It's now connected to the mainland, but the same land-mass still physically exists: and still bears the city of Tyre.

wavy_wonder1

:rolling::rolling::rolling:

wavy_wonder1

edit: septuagint.

my apologies


~eric

Johnny Skeptic

Message to arnolo: You were wrong when you said that God uses prophecy as a sign for believers. Old Testament Jews were believers, and most of them rejected Jesus. If Micah had predicted that the messiah would rule a heavenly kindgom instead of an earthly kingdom like Micah misled the Jews to believe, and had predicted that the messiah would heal people, and that the messiah would be crucified, buried, and rise from the dead in three days, and that Pontius Pilate would become the Roman governor of Palestine, and that Herod would become the King of Judea, surely more Jews would have accepted Jesus. Historically, many people have accepted all kinds of outlandish religions based upon much less convincing evidence than that.

If you are evasive, that will not work. If you claim that I am off-topic, I wish to inform you that I will also post this in the thread that is titled 'Bible prophecy.' Sooner of later, you will have to discuss these arguments or you will lose all of your credibility.

No reasonable motives why God predicts the future = no God of the Bible.

sugarhitman

You are still circling around my questions.
1. Ezekiel knew that Nebby did not plunder Tyre, so is it possible that he changed He to They in verse 12 that begans with the plundering of Tyre, to seperate Nebby from They? Or did he go ahead to write anyway leaving the failed prophecy unchanged? (which makes no sense it all, prophets were very serious about their work).
2. And if Ezekiel was targeting the island only why would he have Nebby destroying it, then turn around in the same and next chapter saying Tyre and everything in it would be destroyed BY the sea?
3. Ezekiel wasnt an engineer? Come on all it takes is common sense to know you cannot build siege mounds in the sea, and chariots and horses and battering rams against an isalnd fortress with no land outside its walls is just stupid. There is ofcourse a clear hint of the causeway but that is listed under "They."
4. God says that Tyre would be completely DESOLATE WITHOUT INHABITANT when he brings the sea over Tyre in ch. 26. In ch. 27. How can a desolate city be inhabited by fishermen? How can you spread nets on top of a rock that is buried beneath the sea? (This shows that Tyre would be reduced to a fishing villege city or town with the mainland city gone where nets are spread on its former location until the last judgement. There is a clear seperation between verse 14 and 20. Verse 20 makes it clear that this desolation will not occur until the sea is brought over Tyre it also corrosponds to ch. 27:"IN THE TIME WHEN YOU SHALL BE BROKEN BY THE SEAS IN THE DEPTHS OF THE WATER....ALL YOUR COMPANY IN THE MIDST OF YOU SHALL FALL." and "ALL YOUR COMPANY...SHALL FALL INTO THE MIDST OF THE SEAS IN THE DAY OF YOUR RUIN." This is strong evidence that Tyre is destroyed by the sea not at the hands of any nation. The nations were only to reduce it to a fishing site. Verse14 ends the mainland city 15 begins with the island which ends in verse 20. Verse 14 and 20 are two different judgements against two locations....mainland and island Tyre.


Ive been trying to locate the spring water located on the mainland that was (is?) used as a source of water for both the mainland and island can anyone point this out on a map? Arnoldo?
Can you answer these my friend? And by the way that city of Sur on the mainland seems awfully far back from the coast...dont you think?

WVIncagold

once again sugar takes the apologist route and keeps fabricating the same old tyred (tongue in cheek) responses.

Jack the Bodiless

"They" refers to the soldiers of Nebby's army.

I suggest you read the exchange between Farrell Till and Matthew Hogan on the "Tyre prophecy":

Farrell Till: Prophecies: Imaginary and Unfulfilled
Matthew Hogan: Till's Errors Concerning Tyre
Farrell Till: Hogan's Errors Concerning Pronouns
Matthew Hogan: A Straw House Amid 10-Foot Waves
Farrell Till: The Romans, Greeks, and So Forth
Matthew Hogan's capitulation

Ezekiel's haphazard use of pronouns is explored in that debate. He uses "he" and "they" interchangeably, and nothing can be inferred from this.
Again, already covered in a previous thread (why are you bringing up exactly the same stuff over and over again?). Either Ezekiel was "prophesying" a final destruction of the island by God, or he was speaking poetically/metaphorically at that point.
So, after saying it's "common sense" that this cannot be done, you then admit that it WAS done (later)?

Therefore, obviously, it could be done.

BTW, the sea between Tyre and the mainland was mostly very shallow (which is why Alex's causeway worked).
You're still trying to apply logic to the ravings of a madman.
This never happened either. Tyre has not been "reduced" to just a fishing village. It always WAS the base of a fishing fleet, and it still is: but it was also a prosperous trading port (and it still is).
Nope. Only Ezekiel 26:6 and the first part of Ezekiel 26:8 refer to the mainland settlements (the "daughters in the field", which can also be translated as "daughters on land"). Everything else refers to Tyre (the island).