Solitary Man

Anyone have anything else except assertion? And before you chime in again, Half-Life, you may want to see the context this was in this thread:

http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=232189

For some reason, the question apparently (thus thinketh Toto) was relevant to the claims in Zeitgeist and that thread that Jesus was the Sun. :huh:

Half-Life

What do you mean anything but assertion?

I am not claiming that Jesus is THE sun. I am saying he was the son.

The "rising of the sun" is different from "the rising of the son." But, both are risen by God Himself.

God raised the son from death and God raised the sun during creation. If anything, this should help you use it to defend Christianity because it's consistent from OT to NT.

I already stated I really don't care what Jesus was, I just lack belief in him.

Solitary Man

Could you take a question any more out of context?

Toto

This split is headed for E for lack of serious content. . .

spamandham

The similarities between Jesus and the sun (Sol Invictus) are not textual, but in terms of imagery instead.

If you examine early 'christian' art, you find that (almost?) all of it is nothing more than a continuation of pre-existing solar deity art;

- the Chi Rho precedes Christianity on coins (by several hundered years!)
- the cross symbolism precedes Christianity in multiple forms (solar cross)
- the Mary/Jesus icons precede Christianity (from Horus/Isis)
- the 'good shepherd' icons precede Christianity
- the fish symbolism (ok, not specifically solar, but certainly astrotheological)
- halos

Solitary Man

You going to support any of that?

ashurbanipal

Jesus is identified with the Sun, as are all the dying Gods, because of the cycle of the year, especially as it relates to agriculture. However, there are a few different strands of symbolism woven into the Jesus myth. You have to keep in mind a few things:

1) It was once the role of the king to be sacrificed at the time of the sowing of seeds. Eventually, it became the son of the King who was sacrificed, or something ceremonially connected with the King, who was sacrificed at this time. The idea being that this would appease the sky gods and bring rain to make crops grow (compare to the Christian notion of Jesus, both the son of the King of Heaven and the King of the Jews, by his sacrifice bringing purification--baptism, or water-- to all people). Thus, we find Jesus dying in spring. But, we also find him resurrected in spring, as the sun begins to make its comeback at the vernal equinox.

2) The sun is at its lowest point in the sky at the winter solstice, but it is there that it begins its long trek back towards its highest point. We therefore find Jesus' birth attributed to December 25th.

There is a deeper meaning to these three dates as well, and their astrological significance, but it's not germane to the topic.

Jesus later became identified (probably through the additions of the mysticism of Syraic Gnosticism, which were derived from the same root ideas as Qabala) with the mystical Christ of Tiphareth, which is the sphere of the Sun.

Jeffrey Gibson

All of them? May we have some documentation of this claim, please, preferably from primary sources?

It was?? Of all kings? According to whom??

And you know this to be a fact, how? What are your sources for these claims?

Jeffrey

Half-Life

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...louvre_029.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cross

I could find those two. Why's it such a big deal that these 2 things predate Christianity? :huh:

elevator

I can also add to that the Labarum (Chi Rho) and Ra with the Sun Disk, generally considered to be an early representation of a halo. Also The Buddha with a halo.

With that said there are several (non-religious) critics of the sources used in the Zeitgeist movie, for example right here.. It seems like there are several reasons to examine the claims made by Zeitgeist, but at the same time exercise a healthy critique of it's sources for these claims.