DBT

You ignore context.

sharon45

You are still not going to get anywhere until you actually show how these passages Matthew 13:24-30 and Matthew 13:36-43 support your belief.

The passages show the obvious separation with the wheat being of the kingdom and accepted for storage and the weeds being of the devil and not of the kingdom thus are not stored elsewhere but instead burned.

sharon45

And you want to continue to appeal to paul's supposed authority over the gospel's supposed authority.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to TonyN: God refuses to protect women from rapists, and he kills people with hurricanes, including children, not to mention innocent animals. Do you call that merciful? The Old Testament condones slavery. Do you call that merciful?

maddog

You haven't been paying attention, Johnny. TonyN thinks slavery is A-OK!

#1557

Ubercat

I suspect that TonyN would happily rubber stamp ANY kind of evil, if it saves him from having to admit to himself that he's based his life on a big lie. Change is really tough for some people.

-Ubercat

Wolfie

Anyway - Copernicus just didn't wake up one morning and say "The sun is the centre of the solar system!" His theory was based on deductive reasoning. He produced a better model than the current one. He didn't just 'say so' - he arose at his position by logic.

If I give someone advice on, say, explosive stability - that is based on my 29 plus years experience in the field. It is not just 'because I say so' - I am saving the person asaking my advice froma having to go through all the same trials and tribulations that I have experienced.

I cannot for the life of me understand how TonyN has such a down on what is basically seeking expert advice.

If a parishoner has a problem and goes to seek the advice of his/her priest - does that fall into the same category?

If the priest detects a problem in his parish, he goes to seek the advice of his bishop....

Is it wrong to go ask the Pope for advice?

Is the Pope wrong to pray to God to give him guidance? I rather thought that that was what the Pope was for.

Ultimately all prayer - apart from that which sycophantically praises the Lord - is a request for heavenly guidance, guidance from the ultimate expert.

Now I must away and tend to my slaves.

TonyN

Originally Posted by TonyN
You infer from the Matthew passage that it is talking about hell. Also, what is the time imposed on such a judgment? Is it ever said to be never ending? It does not contradict 1 Timothy 2:4-11. It just comes before God saving all mankind. Matthew didn't get it wrong. There are judgments to come. They just happen before God saves all mankind.

This is quite easy, really:

1Ki 8:51 (for Your people and Your inheritance [are] they, whom You did bring out of Egypt, out of the midst of the furnace of iron) -.

Jer 11:4 That I commanded your fathers, In the day of My bringing them out from the land of Egypt, Out of the iron furnace, saying, Hearken to My voice, and you have done them, According to all that I command you, And you have been to Me for a people, And I am to you for Elohim,

Eze 22:18 The house of Israel has been to Me for dross, All of them [are] brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, In the midst of a furnace--dross has silver been,

Eze 22:20 A gathering of silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, Unto the midst of a furnace--to blow on it fire, to melt it, So do I gather in Mine anger and in My fury, And I have let rest, and have melted you."

Eze 22:22 As the melting of silver in the midst of a furnace, So are you melted in its midst, And you have known that I, Yahweh, I have poured out My fury upon you.'"

In the Old Testament, when Israel was held captive in Egypt they were said to be in an iron furnace. Was it eternal? Was there literal fire burning all of Egypt for 400 years? Did anyone get literally burnt? Now it is time for

In Matthew 13:42,43 which Sharon quoted above, it is concerning when Christ comes back to the earth and sets up His kingdom on the earth in Israel. He will be doing this: "Mat 13:41 The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing lawlessness," and then casts them into the furnace which is outside the kingdom where the nations are. Will they literallyl be burned? Are the nations literally on fire during this time? Does this disprove that God will save all mankind at a later date? No to all those questions.

sharon45

You still continue to go in circles since we have already covered this. Do I think the saved are literally wheat and the unsaved are literally weeds? Does anyone here think that? Of course not.

The wheat is what is accepted as to having value and was specifically planted by the owner of the field for harvest from the owner's field, while the weeds are accepted as to not having any value since they were not specifically planted by the owner of the field for harvest in the owner's field. The wheat is taken to the barn and the weeds are burned. How could anyone get the idea that somehow later these burned weeds are all of a sudden going to be considered having value to the owner of the field?

Just because paul wants to put forth an idea of his own, does not make it a truth, especially when it contradicts the gospels.

Sure it is symbolic, but it has to follow the structure presented or it becomes chaos.

The field represents the world and the separation is done there only. The weeds are never in the Kingdom because they do not belong as explained in verses 13:38-39, so they are only gathered up from the field and burned as the passage clearly states. Verse 13:41 shows this with the weeds being prevented from entering the Kingdom. The wheat is taken to the barn which does respresent the Kingdom as 13:43 reveals.


Matthew 13:24-30

24 Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.
25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.
26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 "The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28 " 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29 " 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "

Matthew 13:36-43

36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."
37 He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.
38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
42 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

bfniii

yeah. like this website doesn't preach liberal, atheistic notions.