Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hinduwoman · 01-26-2004, 06:31 PM

http://www.christianism.com/additions/20.html

Quote:

Buddhism was well known to Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 150--218). He repeatedly refers to the presence of Buddhists in Alexandria, and declares that 'the Greeks stole their philosophy from the barbarians'. He is the first Greek writer to mention Buddha by name. 'There are', he says, 'some Indians who follow the precepts of Boutta, whom by an excessive reverence they have exalted into a god [compare: Jesus].'25 [see footnote, below] He knows that Buddhists believe in transmigration (...[Greek word]) and 'worship a kind of pyramid (stupa) beneath which they think the bones of some divinity lie buried'. Perhaps these facts throw some light on the curious resemblances between the Gospel story and the life of Buddha as told in late Buddhist works like the Lalita Vistara ["A version of it appears to have been translated into Chinese in AD 308." (Encyc. Brit.); origins?]. Some of these are the Buddha's miraculous conception and birth; the star over his birthplace; the prophecy of the aged Asita, the Buddhist Simeon; the temptation by Mara; the twelve disciples with the 'beloved disciple', Ananda; and the miracles, coupled with the Buddha's disapproval of these as proofs of his Buddhahood.
More startling still are the points of similarity between the Buddhist and Christian parables and miracles. Thus in Jataka 190 we read of the pious disciple who walks on the water while he is full of faith in the Buddha, but begins to sink when his ecstasy subsides. On his arrival the Master inquires how he has fared. 'Oh, Sir,' he replies, 'I was so absorbed in thoughts of the Buddha, that I walked over the water of the river as though it had been dry ground!' As Max Muller remarks,26 mere walking upon the water is not an uncommon story; but walking by faith, and sinking for want of it, can only be accounted for by some historical contact and transference, and the Jatakas are centuries older than the Gospels. In Jataka 78 the Buddha feeds his 500 brethren with a single cake which has been put into his begging-bowl, and there is so much over [sic] that what is left has to be thrown away. In a late Buddhist work, the Saddharma Pundarika [(Lotus Sutra) "first translated into Chinese in the 3rd century AD" (Encyc. Brit.); origins?], there is a parable which bears a close resemblance to that of the Prodigal Son." [436].
[footnote] "25Stromata, i. 15. McCrindle quotes other passages from other Alexandrian divines referring to Buddha,, which show that Alexandrians must have been well acquainted with him and his teaching by the third century A.D. (Ancient India, pp. 184 ff.). They ["Alexandrians"] were greatly impressed with the story of the Immaculate Conception of Queen Maya." [436].

From: The Religions of India, Edward Washburn Hopkins, Ph.D. (Leipsic), Professor of Sanskrit and Comparative Philology in Bryn Mawr College, Ginn & Company, c1895

Possible, or just a coincidence?

01-26-2004, 06:50 PM

Could it be the same archetypal reality that both were looking at?

Malachi151 · 01-26-2004, 07:18 PM

Its highly likely that there was crossover in these mythologies.

This all took place at the crossroads of the world, where east meets west, etc, etc.

The stories of the Jews, the Zoroastrians, the Buddhists, and the Romans are all mixed together, and telling what parts came from where may be next to impossible, but it seems as though the Chrisitan smyths were the last on the scene, and most likely absorbed the stories of the others, not the other way around.

Toto · 01-26-2004, 10:40 PM

Cultural contact between India and ancient Greece goes back at least to Alexander the Great, who arrived in the Indus Valley in 327 BCE and conquered territory in Bactria.

There is (or was) an inscription on a rock wall near Kandahar, Afghanistan (a city named after Alexander), with a bilingual text in 3rd c. BCE Hellenistic Greek and imperial Aramaic celebrating King Ashoka's convertion to the Buddhist faith.

Joseph Campbell reports that the Greek King Menander (c. 125 - c. 95 BCE) was either a Buddhist or a patron of the faith, and had the Buddhist Wheel of the Law on his coins.

So it is entirely possible that some Buddhist themes show up in the gospels, along with references to the Jewish scriptures and the Homeric epics.

My only question would be how ancient those Buddhist texts really are. The last time I looked at a similar question, I found that the eastern texts were not as ancient as they were claimed, and had apparently incorporated later material. So the Buddhist legends may have picked up Christian themes.

Is there a way of reliably dating the Jatakas?

Toto · 01-26-2004, 10:56 PM

I remember now - I looked into those stories that Jesus went to India, and decided they were late.

This site on the Jatakas does not give a clear indication of dating, but it seems unlikely that there is manuscript evidence for the Jatakas predating the gospels.

rlogan · 01-27-2004, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
I remember now - I looked into those stories that Jesus went to India, and decided they were late.

Notovich and Elizabeth Prophet?

When I read that stuff I was hoping it would add to the HJ. After all, he did "vanish" for twenty years.

But we have a bit of a time verifying 'ol notty was there. And it's just odd that we can't get our hands on either the Yeti or these documents he read. Know what I mean?

01-26-2004, 06:50 PM	#2
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Gospels based on Buddhism? Could it be the same archetypal reality that both were looking at?

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01-26-2004, 07:18 PM	#3
Malachi151 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8,674	Its highly likely that there was crossover in these mythologies. This all took place at the crossroads of the world, where east meets west, etc, etc. The stories of the Jews, the Zoroastrians, the Buddhists, and the Romans are all mixed together, and telling what parts came from where may be next to impossible, but it seems as though the Chrisitan smyths were the last on the scene, and most likely absorbed the stories of the others, not the other way around.

01-26-2004, 10:40 PM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Cultural contact between India and ancient Greece goes back at least to Alexander the Great, who arrived in the Indus Valley in 327 BCE and conquered territory in Bactria. There is (or was) an inscription on a rock wall near Kandahar, Afghanistan (a city named after Alexander), with a bilingual text in 3rd c. BCE Hellenistic Greek and imperial Aramaic celebrating King Ashoka's convertion to the Buddhist faith. Joseph Campbell reports that the Greek King Menander (c. 125 - c. 95 BCE) was either a Buddhist or a patron of the faith, and had the Buddhist Wheel of the Law on his coins. So it is entirely possible that some Buddhist themes show up in the gospels, along with references to the Jewish scriptures and the Homeric epics. My only question would be how ancient those Buddhist texts really are. The last time I looked at a similar question, I found that the eastern texts were not as ancient as they were claimed, and had apparently incorporated later material. So the Buddhist legends may have picked up Christian themes. Is there a way of reliably dating the Jatakas?

01-26-2004, 10:56 PM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I remember now - I looked into those stories that Jesus went to India, and decided they were late. This site on the Jatakas does not give a clear indication of dating, but it seems unlikely that there is manuscript evidence for the Jatakas predating the gospels.

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