HeretiKc

Well chief, can you get me started on how to assign numerical value to letters?

einniv

I like his books because they mention a lot of different scholars and their ideas. However , he never seems to pick out one or the other idea as his favorite. They are good books for lay people , like myself, who are interested in the range of ideas out there. Just don't expect him to come to many hard conclusions.

I will admit that this may just be my own perception and that I am overlooking stuff.

PS. Shrinking son is an excellent book.

Cege

einniv, I'm an amateur that appreciates any and all sincere responses. I'm here to learn what I can and I ask a lot of questions.

One reason I question the "sacred" status of the number 153 is because I haven't found it stated on any mathematics websites. I don't question that 153 is a triangular number and a special number within mathematics because of its properties.

The Pythagoras fish story is given in at least 2 ways, maybe for the same reasons that some stories about Jesus in the gospels are given 2 or more ways. It makes sense that the original story didn't include an exact number but came to include a special number as the story was told over and over again. (I think I read that the actual writings about Pythagorian adventures were made 800 years after his death--plenty of time for exaggerations to have grown considerably.)

It seems that some would suggest that the original Pythagoras story about the fish catch was passed along into the time of Jesus, and Christians adopted it by design, or by ignorance, to apply to Jesus, and it was therefore eventually included by the author of GJohn or added later to his gospel. I can see how the circumstances lend themselves to that happening.

Cege

If you're serious, what's the indicator in the scriptures that there were 153 people praying in the house? My impression is that the original eleven apostles plus the newly elected apostle Matthias were in the room--those referred to as "Galileans" who began speaking in 'other tongues' after tongues of fire appeared over their heads.

Coragyps

Pah! Specious babbling! 153 is there because it's equal to 51/14 times 42! A 1900-year foreshadowing of Douglas Adams!

yummyfur

If it's a reference to Pythagorean vesica piscis, then maybe we are to take the second number 265 as the clue. In Greek Gematria 265 would be Agamedes, who among other stories, is one related by Cicero.

"Trophonius and Agamedes are said to have put up the same petition, for they, having built a temple to Apollo at Delphi, offered supplications to the God, and desired of him some extraordinary reward for their care and labor, particularizing nothing, but asking for whatever was best for men. Accordingly, Apollo signified to them that he would bestow it on them in three days, and on the third day at daybreak they were found dead. And so they say that this was a formal decision pronounced by that God to whom the rest of the deities have assigned the province of divining with an accuracy superior to that of all the rest."

Also maybe it's just me but doesn't Chapter 21 seem like it was tacked on after Chapter 20, which seems to already have an ending.

Nazaroo

http://philologos.org/__eb-ttb/sect75.htm

http://www.historicist.com/articles3/papalsignature.htm

Nazaroo

Acts 1:15b: "And in those days Peter stood up in the midst....they numbered about 120 persons"
...
Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all with one accord in one place..."

We can assume about 30 more were added from surrounding regions in the short time between when Peter suggested a replacement for Judas and the Holy Fire of Pentecost.

Clivedurdle

Is not the reference to Arthur C Clarke's laws sufficient to define sacred?

Maths writers are by definition secular and do not - except in history of maths, discuss religion - because the astrological reasons behind Babylonian maths for example are seen as embarassing, except the more recent view is to look at this as proto-science.

This is a Pythagorean story in John - nothing to do with Pentecost unless Pentecost is another story built on this one!

How many more references are there to extra biblical events and beliefs and stories?

Cege

120 was the number of believers prior to Pentecost, according to verse 15.
12 was the number of apostles once again, after Matthias was appointed to replace the dead Judas.

12 seems to be the "all" who had gathered, sitting in one house, when flames of fire arrived, and not 120. Each spoke a different language, which could be understood by the Jews "from every nation" who were in Jerusalem for the feast. 12 also seems a more likely number of languages than 120.

I just don't see any evidence to conclude that 153 fish indicates the number gathered together in one house at Pentecost, or that the number of people gathered in one house at Pentecost was 153.