Chuck Rightmire

I thank you, also. My one-volume OED is old and the type has somehow gotten smaller over the years.

Toto

Is this all there is to say about this?

It appears that the people who try to make the Japheth - Jupiter link are trying to trace the Indo-european Caucasian "race" to this Japheth, one of the sons of Noah.

spin

If you insist, Toto.

Japheth is actually a borrowing from Greek, Iapetos, the founder of the human (Greek) race after the flood. The table of nations in Genesis is heavily influenced by Greek thought.


spin

spin

We have Gomer, ie Cimmeria, one of the sons of whom is Ashkenazi, ie the Scythians (Suku) and among the other sons of Japheth are Meshech (Mushku) and Tubal (Tabal), which are the names of two neo-Hittite realms in northern Syria (which incidentally ensure that the table of nations was written after their appearance in the 10th century circa), and the most interesting son Jawan, a form of Ionia. All peoples to do with Asia Minor, oh and Madai, the Medes who fought wars in Asia Minor including against Croesus, da rich guy. Iapetos, according to one tradition was married to Asia, ie what we call Asia Minor.


spin spin spin

Jedi Mind Trick

Hi spin,
Isn't the Iapetos-Japheth link also claimed by those making the Japheth-Jupiter link?

They claim the etymological descent went like this.
Japheth-Iapetos-Jupiter.
I realize you say Jupiter is Etruscan in origin...
Don’t some argue against a Japheth-Iapetos connection as well?

Is the myth of Iapetos earlier than Japheth?

There also is a Sumerian "Japetosthes" and a Hindu "Prajapati."

As a side bar, I also came across this intersting site about the connection between Noah and the Ziusudra myth.
http://www.flood-myth.com/

Jedi Mind Trick

Based upon the link, wouldn't it be more likely that the Greek 'Iapetos,' the Hebrew 'Japheth' and the Hindu 'Prajapati' came from the Sumerian 'Japetosthes?'

I am a novice here and, as previously stated, a little gullible, so don't take this as anything other than a request for info.

spin

First, I haven't found a credible source for the form Japetosthes, which certainly doesn't look Sumerian. I have only found basically the same material at different sites which originate with AcharyaS, not a source that I could trust further than I could spit.

Second, I haven't found a source to provide an etymology for Prajapati, to allow me to assume that "Pra-" is some sort of prefix.

However, it wouldn't be too strange if Greek and Sanskrit religious notions came from the same source, they are two manifestations of the same language family and share a common ancestral heritage. The word deus ("god") in Latin is from the same source as dios (divine) and theos (god) in Greek and deva (divine) in Sanskrit, also manifested in dyaus-pitar (=Jupiter) in Sanskrit.

The term Dioscuri in Latin comes from the Greek dios kouroi (divine boys, ie sons of Zeus), one of whom is called "Kastor" ("he who excels"). The divine twins in Sanskrit have a different name ("Ashvins" = possessing horses, as the Dioscuri did) but they are the protectors of the Kshatriya (from a verb "to rule"), you can see the consonantal similarity as well.

Interestingly enough, two other Indo-European groups the Hittites and the Mitanni once signed a treay which invoked the gods Vishnu, Indra, Varuna and the Nasatyas (another descriptive name for the Ashvins = Dioscuri), all gods known from Sanskrit, yet also accepted by the treaty signers, ie they were not borrowed, but were part of a common heritage.

One can't expect too much similarity though, they lived apart for so long they incorporated later experiences into their beliefs and older ideas disappeared into the layers of time. The Iranians (Persians, Medes and Parthians) shared a lot with the Hindu, but good gods in India referred to as Devas were bad in Iran, while bad ones called Asuras were bad in India and as Ahuras in Iran they were good!

So the Prajapati connection is possible, because of a common heritage, though not demonstrated, Japetosthes seems unconvincing unless someone provided a real source for the info.


spin

Jedi Mind Trick

Thanks again Spin,
Like I said earlier, I am trying to verify AcharyaS' etymological claims, so yes, my reference to both Prajapati and Japetosthes comes from her book.
You do not trust her work? (I have noticed that she is not well regarded) But you agree with the mythists? Yes?

Who would you suggest as a good read, more trustworthy?

spin

Try this outburst of verse, as a lighthearted response.

Which mythicists? Which myths? I'm not a mythicist in the Jesus stakes: I sit on the fence. So, which myths? Then again I shy away fromthe term myth because of its inherently negative connotations. I tend to talk of traditions, yet accept the non-historical nature of most of these traditions.

A read for what purpose?


spin

Chuck Rightmire

Spin, wouldn't this make the table of nations Aryan rather than Semitic?