Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hjalti · 04-25-2010, 02:51 AM

Just noticed that Robert M. Price has a blog at the CfI site: The Bible geek.

Quote:

Welcome to a new feature: The Bible Geek ! Some of you may be familiar with my podcast with the same title. In it I seek to answer any and every question submitted to me about that ever-fascinating book. My goal is neither to defend nor to attack, but merely to elucidate the puzzles of the text that many of us have wondered about for years. I welcome your questions to be answered in writing here! They can be sent to biblegeek@centerforinquiry.net . But for this first time out, let me offer an example of a strange Bible text and its “solution.”

His first post is about Elisha and the bears

If you're not familiar with the Bible geek podcast, you should check it out, here's the rss-feed. And if you want to ask questionf for the podcast, it's criticus[at]aol.com

Just spreading the good news

gurugeorge · 04-25-2010, 05:45 AM

It certainly is good news

I've recently been getting into a jag of catching up on the archive of past Bible Geek podcasts - a great resource and hugely entertaining!

John Kesler · 04-25-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjalti

His first post is about Elisha and the bears

At that linked post, Price writes the following:

Quote:

Many biblical characters seem to have begun as mythic personifications of the heavenly bodies. 1 Biblical sun gods include Enoch, Isaac, Esau, Moses, Samson (whose name simply means “the sun”), Elijah, Jonah, and maybe even Jesus. Israelite moon gods include Abraham, Jacob, and Elisha. Often the stories pair them and show conflict between them, one getting the advantage of the other, but only temporarily. This motif reflects the eternal cycle of sun and moon, each dominating the sky in turn. (There’s a great Star Trek: Next Generation episode about the same thing, remember?) Well, it is no coincidence that Elijah commands the fire from heaven (2 Kings 1:10, 12), causes drought (1 Kings 17:14), rises into the heavens aboard Apollo’s fiery chariot—and has long hair (2 Kings 1:8) representing the sun’s rays.

2 Kings 1:8 reads as follows in various translations:

Quote:

8 They replied, "He was a man with a garment of hair and with a leather belt around his waist." The king said, "That was Elijah the Tishbite." (NIV)
8 They answered him, "He was a hairy man with a leather girdle bound about his loins." And he said, "It is Elijah the Tishbite." (NASB)
8 And they answered him, He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite. (KJV)
8 And they answered him, He was a hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite. (ASV)
8 And they say unto him, `A man -- hairy, and a girdle of skin girt about his loins;' and he saith, `He [is] Elijah the Tishbite.' (YLT)
8 They answered him, "A hairy man, with a leather belt around his waist." He said, "It is Elijah the Tishbite." (NRSV)
8 "A hairy man," they replied, "with a leather belt tied around his waist." "That's Elijah the Tishbite!" he said. (New JPS Tanakh)
8 "Wearing a hairy garment," they replied, "with a leather girdle about his loins." "It is Elijah the Tishbite!" he exclaimed. (NAB)
8 They replied, “He was a hairy man and had a leather belt tied around his waist.” The king said, “He is Elijah the Tishbite.” (Net Bible)

The Net Bible gives this footnote:

Quote:

Heb “an owner of hair.” This idiomatic expression indicates that Elijah was very hairy. For other examples where the idiom “owner of” is used to describe a characteristic of someone, see HALOT 143 s.v. בַּעַל. For example, an “owner of dreams” is one who frequently has dreams (Gen 37:19) and an “owner of anger” is a hot-tempered individual (Prov 22:24).

Reference works that I consulted say that either Elijah was "hairy" (perhaps like Esau) or that he possessed a hairy cloak, and Zech 13:4 is cited as proof for the latter interpretation.

I would also note that John the Baptist, emulating Elijah, is never said to have long hair, but to be "clothed with camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist" (Mark 1:6, NRSV). If Mark (and later Matthew) thought that Elijah actually had long hair, why wouldn't they (or John himself) say this of John?

I'm not saying that Dr. Price's interpretation is wrong, but does anyone have any evidence that interpreting the text to mean that Elijah had long hair is to be preferred to the other interpretations?

hjalti · 04-25-2010, 08:49 AM

Quote:

8 איש בעל שער “a hairy man.” In spite of the development of the Jewish and Christian traditions concerning Elijah, there is no justification for the translation of this phrase as “he wore a garment of haircloth” (rsv). On its own the word שער simply means “hair,” and when it is used adjectivally of clothing there is no ambiguity at all (cf. Gen 25:15; Zech 13:4). Further, the use of the construct form of בעל indicates that שער is descriptive of a person. A perfect parallel exists in Dan 8:6, 20 in the use of בעל הקרנים “a baal with horns.” If Elijah were to be characterized by his head of hair then this would certainly be a distinguishing feature, since it would set him apart from Elisha, who was bald! On the other hand, if “hair garments” were the uniform of all prophets, this would not identify Elijah the Tishbite.

Hobbs, T. R., Word Biblical Commentary : 2 Kings

John Kesler · 04-25-2010, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hjalti

Quote:

A perfect parallel exists in Dan 8:6, 20 in the use of בעל הקרנים “a baal with horns.”

Hobbs, T. R., Word Biblical Commentary : 2 Kings

Does the source really say that "a baal with horns" is the proper translation of Daniel 8:6,20? The Hebrew word is 'ayil, translated "ram." Ba'al appears in each verse, but to indicate possession (of the horns), not as the object that had the horns.

Even if WBC is correct about Elijah's having hair in contrast to Elisha's baldness, this still doesn't mean that Elijah had long hair.

hjalti · 04-26-2010, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Does the source really say that "a baal with horns" is the proper translation of Daniel 8:6,20?

It says: "A perfect parallel exists in Dan 8:6, 20 in the use of בעל הקרנים “a baal with horns.”"

Quote:

Ba'al appears in each verse, but to indicate possession (of the horns), not as the object that had the horns.

Well, isn't it similar to something like: the owner of the house. I think that the ram is the "baal" of horns in the same way.

Quote:

Even if WBC is correct about Elijah's having hair in contrast to Elisha's baldness, this still doesn't mean that Elijah had long hair.

True, he's at least "hairy".

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

04-25-2010, 05:45 AM	#2
gurugeorge Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,210	It certainly is good news I've recently been getting into a jag of catching up on the archive of past Bible Geek podcasts - a great resource and hugely entertaining!

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.