gnosis92

Whether one believes in Jesus or not, it is clear that the community of first century Jews that produced the New Testament believed in Satan as the ultimate evil. It is clear that rabbinic Judaism believes in Satan as a testor but not pure evil.

Our earliest witness to early Christians, Paul, spoke frequently of Satan/Devil as pure evil, yet he says he grew up in the Pharisee "tradition of our elders"

Presumably the Pharisees did not believe Satan was pure evil, so where did Paul and the early CHritian-Jews get this idea Satan was pure evil?

I am curious, and I guess I'd like to ask Anat, our resident expert on Judaism, is there any evidence any group of Jews of the first century (i.e Sadducees, Essenes, Pharisees, Hellinized Jews like Philo, etc.)

believed in Satan as pure evil.

Since Job is a part of the OT canon, and Job has Satan (as well as non-canonical books like the book of Enoch) it appears at least those Jews who liked non-canonical books like Enoch seemed to start on the trajectory of Satan as pure evil. Who were these Jews and what do we know about them?

Malachi151

"They" didn't, the idea comes from Zorastrianism and Egyptian religion. Its called "cultural evolution".

aguy2

You will probably find this contention more than a bit unusual, but seeing as I contend that the 'Christ' figure is in all likelyhood representative of a 'Repentant Satan' figure and Saul/Paul is representative of a 'Anti-Christ' figure, I would tend to lay the concept of 'Satan' as pure evil at the feet of Saul/Paul.
aguy2

judge

Can you back this up?

Paul in Corinthians seem to treat satan as a servant or tool of god. He ask the community there to hand a man "over to satan" that his soul amy be saved.

jgibson000

And Satan/hO DIABOLOS in the "temptation" stories of Matthew and Luke (Matt. 4:1-11//Lk. 4:1-13) is a figure who is presented as under divine direction and as carrying out the divine purpose.

JG

Chili

The gift of discernment makes satan pure evil. Until then is he our buddy and we keep on doing the things we do not want to do, but do them to satisfy our human needs or desires.

Good and evil do not exist by themselves but are words used to describe a certain stream of consciousness against which salvation must be found. This would be the time that the sinner stands convicted as described in Gal.2:17 by his very own sinfulness, here still in his human body but with Christ living in him.

Satan is a good teacher (I call her Magdalene or Eve) who herself is driven by the woman who saw that the TOK was good for gaining things, including eternal wisdom and beauty.

Could I add that the woman causes us to color our own heaven while on earth?

judge

So if one has the gift of discernment then ones see Paul presenting satan as evil?
But if one does not have this gift ones does not see this?

Chili

I based my answer on those 'freshly saved sinners,' so to speak, who have a story to tell and that includes their own sinfulness that they were not aware of until they got saved. This would work well for the early Christians and maybe Job and Enoch as gnosis 92 mentioned in the OP. Apart from that it also lines up with Romans 7:8-12 where it was not until the Law came alive that Paul died, while before that time it aroused in him all kinds of evil desires. These passages in Romans isolate the gift of discernment as a gift of the HS and not of Paul's preaching.

No, a believer would already see Paul's kind of satan until he becomes a doubter and once again forgets all about Paul. i think that Paul is preaching an evil satan to identify the source of all evil and imprint this into the mind of the believer so that they will recognize satan when their time comes.

robto

Look at the Community Rule and the War Scroll from the Dead Sea scrolls. CR talks of the Angel of Darkness who leads the forces of unrighteousness, and who is opposed by the forces of Truth. WS has a final battle of the forces of Belial against those of God.

This is pretty nearly a picture of "pure evil". And the language is pure Zoroastrianism: Darkness/Light, Truth/Lie, grand cosmic struggle, ultimate victory by God.

These ideas continue to be propounded in books like Jubilees and 2 & 3 Enoch. Then Xty comes on the scene and steals the concept, and (as a result?) rabbinic Judaism does a housecleaning and rejects it.

dzim77

This is interesting. Please be more specific. In your view, how does Paul's concept of Satan (as "pure evil") differ from the following OT and NT passages which describe Satan as "the accuser" (of God's people), a tempter, and as inciting people to do evil. I don't see the difference you are referring to??

Satan provokes to evil in the OT...
Satan accuses God's people in the OT...
Satan tempts Jesus...
Paul's view of Satan seems to be consistent with the above...



Which specific passages are you refering to?