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Old 01-04-2012, 11:40 AM   #1
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Default Sotto Voce digression on real Christianity split from Historical Errors in the Bible

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And it's not my story. It's a story that forced the Roman Empire, and many since, to adopt it as 'gospel truth', without any of my help.
It was more Constantine doing the forcing than the story.
So are Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy not Christian?
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:55 AM   #2
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It was more Constantine doing the forcing than the story.
So are Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy not Christian?
I'm not sure I understand your question. You said that "the story" (the Gospels) "forced the Roman Empire to adopt it as Gospel truth."

I'm pointing that it was Constantine who forced it on the Roman Empire, not the content of the story. If not for Constantine humoring his convert mother, Christianity would have probably faded into obscurity during the ultimate decline of the Roman Empire.
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:03 PM   #3
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So are Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy not Christian?
I'm not sure I understand your question. You said that "the story" (the Gospels) "forced the Roman Empire to adopt it as Gospel truth."

I'm pointing that it was Constantine who forced it on the Roman Empire, not the content of the story.
Actually, it was Theodosius, but Constantine set the process in motion. Ok. Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are the religions (most of them) that resulted from the imperial edict. So are Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy not Christian?
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:29 PM   #4
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I'm not sure I understand your question. You said that "the story" (the Gospels) "forced the Roman Empire to adopt it as Gospel truth."

I'm pointing that it was Constantine who forced it on the Roman Empire, not the content of the story.
Actually, it was Theodosius, but Constantine set the process in motion. Ok. Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are the religions (most of them) that resulted from the imperial edict. So are Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy not Christian?
Sure they are. So what?
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Old 01-04-2012, 12:33 PM   #5
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Actually, it was Theodosius, but Constantine set the process in motion. Ok. Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are the religions (most of them) that resulted from the imperial edict. So are Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy not Christian?
Sure they are.
If Obama says that all Americans are Christians, does that make them Christians?
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:33 PM   #6
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Sure they are.
If Obama says that all Americans are Christians, does that make them Christians?
Obama doesn't say that. Not all Americans are Christians.

I think you are trying to claim some esoteric meaning of Christian, such that only a small number of virtuous people that you like are True Christians. And I'm guessing that you want to claim that the gospel story impressed these True Christians without any influence from Constantine.

So if that is your argument, please make it explicitly and cut out the pussyfooting around. I'm not sure how it will work.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:44 PM   #7
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If Obama says that all Americans are Christians, does that make them Christians?
Obama doesn't say that.
But if he does.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:11 PM   #8
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Obama doesn't say that.
But if he does.
If he were to do that, you would still have to answer my question:

I think you are trying to claim some esoteric meaning of Christian, such that only a small number of virtuous people that you like are True Christians. And I'm guessing that you want to claim that the gospel story impressed these True Christians without any influence from Constantine.

So if that is your argument, please make it explicitly and cut out the pussyfooting around. I'm not sure how it will work.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:05 PM   #9
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Sure they are.
If Obama says that all Americans are Christians, does that make them Christians?
It's not really what Obama says, it's what they say.

If you're arguing that some people were persuaded before Constantine, well sure they were, but it wasn't because they did some kind of critical analysis and examination of the evidence, they were drawn to it by its promises.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:13 PM   #10
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If Obama says that all Americans are Christians, does that make them Christians?
It's not really what Obama says, it's what they say.
It's not what they say, it's what they are. Can one make someone a Christian by saying that he or she is a Christian?

If Obama said that you are a Christian, would you agree? Presumably not. However, if a soldier came round and put a bayonet to your neck, you might well say that, erm, maybe you were mistaken, after all. But would you think you were a Christian?
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