FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-21-2005, 04:52 AM   #61
JPD
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,322
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhutchin
I guess so -- in the same way that legal contracts, laws, and a host of other things (including many comments on this list) are gibberish.
How often is the Bible revised?
JPD is offline  
Old 11-21-2005, 06:06 AM   #62
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: none
Posts: 9,879
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhutchin
Obviously, Joshua did not, so your question is, “Did God make the sun stand still?�

Yes, I understand that God made the sun stand still.
So does this mean you think the sun revolves around the earth?
Chris Weimer is offline  
Old 11-21-2005, 07:04 AM   #63
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 9,059
Default

Quote:
rhutchin
Obviously, Joshua did not, so your question is, “Did God make the sun stand still?�

Yes, I understand that God made the sun stand still.

Chris Weimer
So does this mean you think the sun revolves around the earth?
No, I don't think I have to think that. It may mean that the speed at which the earth revolves may have been slowed down, maybe even stopped, giving the appearance that the sun stood still. Or maybe the tilt of the earth on its axis was changed. Then again, maybe there is no physical explanation for the event.
rhutchin is offline  
Old 11-21-2005, 07:20 AM   #64
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 6,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhutchin
No, I don't think I have to think that. It may mean that the speed at which the earth revolves may have been slowed down, maybe even stopped, giving the appearance that the sun stood still. Or maybe the tilt of the earth on its axis was changed. Then again, maybe there is no physical explanation for the event.
If there is no physical explanation for the event, no stopping of the sun, no stopping of the earth's rotation, no outright lie about what happened, could you give me a non-physical explanation?

Thank you.
John A. Broussard is offline  
Old 11-21-2005, 07:27 AM   #65
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 9,059
Default

Quote:
rhutchin
No, I don't think I have to think that. It may mean that the speed at which the earth revolves may have been slowed down, maybe even stopped, giving the appearance that the sun stood still. Or maybe the tilt of the earth on its axis was changed. Then again, maybe there is no physical explanation for the event.

John A. Broussard
If there is no physical explanation for the event, no stopping of the sun, no stopping of the earth's rotation, no outright lie about what happened, could you give me a non-physical explanation?

Thank you.
The only information, and explanation, that I have on this event is the following.

Quote:
Joshua 10
12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.
rhutchin is offline  
Old 11-21-2005, 07:46 AM   #66
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 6,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhutchin
The only information, and explanation, that I have on this event is the following.
Thank you.

Since you have no explanation, you have now admitted that at least one verse in the bible is describing something that may never have happened--since it is beyond human understanding.

How about all the other weird events (resurrection, ascenscion, etc.) which may never have happened and which may be beyond human understanding?

How can you know that these aren't also in the same category as the mythical stopping of the sun?

I'm looking forward to your explanation.

Thank you.
John A. Broussard is offline  
Old 11-21-2005, 09:11 AM   #67
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 9,059
Default

Quote:
rhutchin
The only information, and explanation, that I have on this event is the following.

Quote:
Joshua 10
12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.
John A. Broussard
Thank you.

Since you have no explanation, you have now admitted that at least one verse in the bible is describing something that may never have happened--since it is beyond human understanding.

How about all the other weird events (resurrection, ascenscion, etc.) which may never have happened and which may be beyond human understanding?

How can you know that these aren't also in the same category as the mythical stopping of the sun?

I'm looking forward to your explanation.

Thank you.
Just because something is beyond human understanding does not mean that it may never have happened or is mythical (mystical, perhaps). We still have the historical record that describes the event regardless whether we understand how it happened (same for the resurrection of Christ and other events.

As an explanation, we have--

Quote:
Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
rhutchin is offline  
Old 11-21-2005, 11:16 AM   #68
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 932
Default

I think Twain defined faith better. . .

essentially "believing in something that you know ain't true."
gregor is offline  
Old 11-21-2005, 12:50 PM   #69
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 6,629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhutchin
We still have the historical record that describes the event regardless whether we understand how it happened (same for the resurrection of Christ and other events.
Whoops!

We have an historical record of the sun standing still???

Where is there any mention in contemporary Chinese, Indian and Egyptian astronomical records for the occurrence of that phenomenon?

Remember, those astronomers were not only observing the sun, moon, stars and planets on a regular basis but were accurately predicting eclipses.

I'll clue you in. There is no historical record of the sun standing still. None. Not a one. Nada. NONE.

And yet you believe it happened in the face of the total absence of any historical record of its occurrence.

How do you explain the fact that you can believe in something so weird and way out without one, single shred of supporting evidence?

I look forward to your answer.
John A. Broussard is offline  
Old 11-21-2005, 10:07 PM   #70
Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 10,056
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhutchin
The only information, and explanation, that I have on this event is the following.
Quote:
Joshua 10
12 Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.
"Is this not written in the book of Jasher?" There IS no "book of Jasher." In fact, the unfortunate passage in Joshua 10 appears to quote another book of the Old Testament that somehow didn't make it into the Old Testament as we know it today. What if the "book of Jasher" contains important stuff about rules and regulations necessary for obtaining eternal salvation? Why didn't God see to it to inspire men to actually include the "book of Jasher" if the book of Joshua refers to it?

This, of course, is aside from the obvious fact that the sun never actually stood still in its apparent path in the sky, nor did the moon maintain its position relative to the earth. The physics and thermodynamics of that situation would have sheared the earth to the core. The earth is rotating at a speed of a thousand miles an hour; the inertia created if it were to come to a gradual or sudden stop would literally break up the planet. Sure, you can appeal to the Invisible Magic Pixie in the Sky spreading His Magic Pixie Dust and creating a miracle of physics to stop the earth in its rotation without any damage or harm, but the fact is, we now know there were several record-keeping civilizations elsewhere (unknown to the Old Testament authors) who were blissfully ignorant of a situation so noticeable that it would be unimaginable that anyone could ever miss that unexpected turn of events.

WMD
Wayne Delia is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:53 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.