ApostateAbe

I suppose I'll take that as a "No, I didn't."

Steven Carr

Abe is unable to even see questions like 'Where was the Jerusalem above us that Paul talks about?'

Or 'Where was this heavenly tabernacle that the author of Hebrews talks about?'

As he has to promote the idea that nobody believed in a world 'above us', with copies of what was on earth, such questions have to be blanked out.

Clivedurdle

I think we are looking at extrapolation. The classic example is the skull of a mastodon. The London Geological Museum has one of these skulls next to a model of a cyclops. They are identical except the cyclops is an imaginary "refleshing" of the skull.

The Olympians are a similar extrapolation of questions about how does the world work.

The Lord Jesus Christ makes complete sense as an extrapolation of questions about how the gods and humans interact, with hopes of a new heaven and earth, and an end times completion of everything.

"Death, where is thy sting" Emmanuel - God with us.

"Christ is Risen." "He is Risen indeed"

Third and seven heavens and Dante's levels of hell are further imaginary extrapolations. We have always done this and always will. We cannot invent anything or develop any technology without "what if"?

DCHindley

Another example:

Clementine Recognitions, Chapter XXIX—The Giants: the Flood.

2 “In the ninth generation are born the giants, so called from of old, not dragon-footed, as the fables of the Greeks relate, but men of immense bodies, whose bones, of enormous size, are still shown in some places for confirmation."

DCH

neilgodfrey

Does anyone seriously doubt that the ancients believed in an inobservable environment? Presumably only those who have never read, or have never read any works by anyone acquainted with, the Bible, the Jewish and Christian Pseudepigrapha, Philo, Plutarch, Apuleius . . .

http://vridar.wordpress.com/category...dle-platonism/

aa5874

It is MUST be understood that Mythology does not only refer to non-human entities that "existed" in an unobserved evironment.

Greek/Roman mythology also includes characters that were described as human but never actually existed.

The Jewish religion also include characters that are described as human but are purely mythgological.

Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel of Genesis and Romulus and Remus of Plutarch are all Mythological but are believed to have "existed" on earth.

It is no different with the Myth character called Jesus.

Jesus was called the Son of Man, John the Baptist or one of the prophets and was crucified under Pilate when Caiaphas was High Priest after a trial with the Sanhedrin but his conception was also documented.

Adam of Genesis was created by the Words of God.

Jesus was conceived by Nothing but words of the Prophets.

ApostateAbe

Doherty makes his point using the singular "world of myth," not "worlds," as though there was only one significant "world of myth." Ehrman's point was that the ancients were not nearly unified in their beliefs, sharing no single belief in a "world of myth," not even generally or roughly. This "world of myth" thing seems to be entirely Doherty's theory. I have no doubt that many ancient communities believed in many mythical environments, for example the Greeks believed in Hades and the Zoroastrians believed in the Chinvat Peretum. I would think these myths would have barely any relation to each other, but Doherty seems to take it for granted that there was a single significant "world of myth." Maybe you can explain how you make specific sense of the ancient "world of myth" common to the pagans, Jews and Christians that you have in mind, just so we are clear.

Steven Carr

Wow!

So Abe is basing his claim on worlds of myth, which did exist, while Doherty wrote world of myth.

This is just amazing, even by the standards of Internet absurd arguments.

A bit like claiming that Obama did not win the election because he got a majority of the vote, when he should have got a majority of the votes (plural!)

By the way, where was this Jerusalem above us that Paul mentions.

rlogan

When you are reduced to this extreme level of strawman, Abe - it reflects on yourself, not Doherty.

ApostateAbe

rlogan, maybe there is a big disconnect between what Doherty is saying and what I understand him to be saying? Maybe you can tell me--how do you make sense of the "world of myth" claim by Doherty and where I am getting it wrong?