Johnny Skeptic

Consider the following scriptures:

Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

It takes two or more parties to make a covenant. The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines the word "covenant" as "a usually formal, solemn, and binding agreement," and "a written agreement or promise usually under seal between two or more parties especially for the performance of some action." God's supposed land promise to Jews was at the time made to a group of people who accepted him, but most modern Jews reject Jesus as Lord. If God's land promise to Jews was conditional upon their behavior, then surely their deplorable behavior would not merit them being rewarded with such a large part of Palestine.

Chili

Israel is a state of mind and not a piece of land. It is reached when the river of life that first divided into two rivers wherein we are divided between pleasure and pain, riches and poverty, become one, once again; first in the Phison that rises in the East which was the place we first left behind and now see as if it wells from deep within and finally leads us into the Euphrates wherein we are of one 'bright mind.'

Could it be that the greatest anti semitic act to ever occur in the history of mankind is to force upon them a peace of land that is only God's to give in covenant?

Anat

Of course the State of israel wasn't founded with God's help. It was founded at the cost of the lives of some 6000 fighters, about 1% of the Jewish population of Mandatory Palestine at the end of the British Mandate. The only mention of God in Declaration of Establishment of State of Israel is: Ben Gurion would have avoided any mention of God at all, but he wanted to accomodate members of Hamizrahi (religious Zionist party).

In his summary of the early history of the Jewish people Ben Gurion deliberately avoided any mention of the Exodus and Joshua's conquest of Canaan, for political reasons, presenting the Jewish people as emerging organically within Palestine. Ironically the findings of archaeology are more in line with this presentation than with the traditional view.

Thomas II

Interesting...

Chili

It is from Gen.2 where the plan of salvation that was created in Gen.1 is given causality to accumilate wisdom before the fall of man occured in Gen 3. The nation Israel is the spiritual home of Judaism with Nazareth, Bethel, Shechem and parhaps other places serving as milestones of faith that can be recognized by the faithful as they travel their journey of life while in exile.

Their final home coming is called Israel with the New Jerusalem being the city of God that Jesus entered while riding 2 donkeys that represent the conscious and subconscious mind now acting as one mind over which Pilate and Herod ruled in the past.

They call it Israel, we call it Heaven and Buddhists call it Nirvana. This means that he journey of life is the same for all but with Israel being a nation of its own the 'messiah' will never come again. Tragic, is all I can say, because they were Gods favorite OT people that now lost favor with God.