Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vinnie · 12-17-2003, 12:08 AM

re contradiction thread:

http://www.after-hourz.net/ri/pibible.html

Vinnie

GakuseiDon · 12-17-2003, 01:55 AM

Some points:

Quote:

Of course one might pick up and argue against this objection by noting that the Bible does mention half-cubits (nothing more precise). It is for this reason we reject this solution.

1. Other than Goliath (at 7.5 cubits), I can't find any other measurement in the Bible greater than 4 cubits that aren't measured in full cubits. (If anyone knows any, I'd be interested to see it). So we can assume rounding.

Quote:

If we have no evidence either way how can we press this as an error or a non-error? Unless we have reason to think the object did or did not have a rim or it was//was not a perfect shape we can't tell. Both sides (pro and con) make assumptions here.

1 Kings 7:26 CLEARLY states that the diameter is measured "brim to brim", and the "brim was shaped like the brim of a cup, like a lily blossom". If you've ever seen a lily blossom, you can see the brim spread out in the manner of your drawing.

I agree that some contradictions can't be resolved one way or the other - but in this case, there is enough to put it in the "resolved" basket.

Goliath · 12-17-2003, 03:24 AM

I don't see the point of your article, Vinnie. Even if the pool was measured incorrectly, the verse in question then contains yet another biblical error.

Oh, and next time, please come up with a more substantial reply than calling me a "village atheist."

Sincerely,

Goliath

GakuseiDon · 12-17-2003, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Goliath
I don't see the point of your article, Vinnie. Even if the pool was measured incorrectly, the verse in question then contains yet another biblical error.

Oh, and next time, please come up with a more substantial reply than calling me a "village atheist."

Sincerely,

Goliath

Actually, Goliath, your latest comments in the other thread are more worthy to go in there:

Quote:

If this were any other ancient text, then such rounding would be acceptable, but this is the bible, whence rounding is absolutely inexcusable. Exact precision and accuracy is a must for the (alleged) word of an omnipotent, omniscient god.

Also:

Quote:

But the description must be perfect, since this is (allegedly) the perfect word of a perfect god. So if the bible gave an approximation of pi to the nth decimal place for any n, that would be unacceptable and inexcusable.

How can anyone fight that???

Vinnie · 12-17-2003, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Goliath
I don't see the point of your article, Vinnie. Even if the pool was measured incorrectly, the verse in question then contains yet another biblical error.

Oh, and next time, please come up with a more substantial reply than calling me a "village atheist."

Sincerely,

Goliath

All measurements are approximations. The point that you miss is saying an object is three feet long is not an error. Its a commonly accepted convention for speaking. God is free to use such conventions. God can only be charged with error if God did not know he was rounding.

If I state I am 22 I am not making a mistake even though I may be 22 and several months. This objection is simply anal retentive and fails to note that if God wan't to communicate with us meaningfully he has to use conventional means. Otherwise the author of Kings would still be writing.

Its an absurd objection against the Bible. There are a bunch more one could use. Anyone who uses this one goes on VASTDT which is all meant in good fun. It started as a parody of Winace's Fundies Say the Darndest Things which I admit I find very funny and have contriuted a few quotes too

and this is my absolute last post on the subject of pi and the Bible. Have fun!

Vinnie

DrJim · 12-17-2003, 11:25 AM

To some extent, I think I will have to side with Vinnie on this one. The measurement only really is an issue when there are assertions of absolute infallibility in the smallest detail. If one allows for literary conventions etc, there is virtually nothing to complain about. I think the biblical text at this point, by giving both circumference and diameter dwelling on details to highlight how special Solomon's temple was: perhaps implying that it was far grander than anything the readership may have expected.

ceb · 12-17-2003, 11:40 AM

This is interesting, because the first time I ever heard of "Pi in the Bible" was a Xian claiming that Science was "wrong", because the bible clearly states that Pi is equal to 3!

So which argument came first, I wonder?

Layman · 12-17-2003, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrJim
To some extent, I think I will have to side with Vinnie on this one. The measurement only really is an issue when there are assertions of absolute infallibility in the smallest detail. If one allows for literary conventions etc, there is virtually nothing to complain about. I think the biblical text at this point, by giving both circumference and diameter dwelling on details to highlight how special Solomon's temple was: perhaps implying that it was far grander than anything the readership may have expected.

If God was going have theauthor write out Pi competely accurately the scribe would still be writing.

It rigthly belongs on the Village Atheist board.

But, Vinnie, my favorite is "And I thought the Dutch Radicals were Bad".

GakuseiDon · 12-17-2003, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ceb
This is interesting, because the first time I ever heard of "Pi in the Bible" was a Xian claiming that Science was "wrong", because the bible clearly states that Pi is equal to 3!

So which argument came first, I wonder?

Was that to you personally, or is that in writing somewhere? Just interested.

Toto · 12-17-2003, 04:08 PM

I think that was probably a parody.

Snopes on Pi in the Bible

Quote:

This wonderful bit of creative writing began circulating on the Internet in April 1998. Written by Mark Boslough as an April Fool's parody on legislative and school board attacks on evolution in New Mexico, the author took real statements from New Mexican legislators and school board members supporting creationism and recast them into a fictional account detailing how Alabama legislators had passed a law calling for the value of pi to be set to the "Biblical value" of 3.0.

12-17-2003, 12:08 AM	#1
Vinnie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Waterbury, Ct, Usa Posts: 6,523	Pi in Bible re contradiction thread: http://www.after-hourz.net/ri/pibible.html Vinnie

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12-17-2003, 03:24 AM	#3
Goliath Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fargo, ND, USA Posts: 1,849	I don't see the point of your article, Vinnie. Even if the pool was measured incorrectly, the verse in question then contains yet another biblical error. Oh, and next time, please come up with a more substantial reply than calling me a "village atheist." Sincerely, Goliath

12-17-2003, 11:25 AM	#6
DrJim Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lethbridge AB Canada Posts: 445	To some extent, I think I will have to side with Vinnie on this one. The measurement only really is an issue when there are assertions of absolute infallibility in the smallest detail. If one allows for literary conventions etc, there is virtually nothing to complain about. I think the biblical text at this point, by giving both circumference and diameter dwelling on details to highlight how special Solomon's temple was: perhaps implying that it was far grander than anything the readership may have expected.

12-17-2003, 11:40 AM	#7
ceb Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Madison, AL Posts: 28	This is interesting, because the first time I ever heard of "Pi in the Bible" was a Xian claiming that Science was "wrong", because the bible clearly states that Pi is equal to 3! So which argument came first, I wonder?

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