lunachick

Does Messianic Judaism seek to eradicate Jews through assimilation?

This site: http://www.messiahtruth.com/response.html , argues that it does.

Messianic Judaism: A Christian Missionary Movement

Messianic Judaism is a Christian movement that began in the 1970s combining a mixture of Jewish ritual and Christianity. There are a vast and growing numbers of these groups, and they differ in how much Jewish ritual is mixed with conventional Christian belief. One end of the spectrum is represented by Jews For Jesus, who simply target Jews for conversion to Christianity using imitations of Jewish ritual solely as a ruse for attracting the potential Jewish converts. On the other end are those who don't stress the divinity of Jesus, but present him as the "Messiah." They incorporate distorted Jewish ritual on an ongoing basis.


The movement has received criticism from mainstream Christian leaders, for these groups claim to believe in the New Testament and yet gloss over the distinction between the two communities instituted in that work, and for the deceptive tactics used to gain Jewish converts. They are typically very pro-Israel and include an unusually high number of Jewish symbols -- the Magen David, Torah, talleisim, shofars, yarmulkes, mezzuzahs, Shabbat candles, and use of Hebrew and Yiddish language -- to assure prospective converts that they are not renouncing Judaism by accepting Jesus. According to Jewish law and tradition, such an acceptance is indeed a renunciation of Judaism.

Education: The Best Protection Against Missionary Groups

[......]

One should be aware of the fact that Paul, a founding father of the early church, and the most successful missionary that ever lived, confessed to using deception and lies to make converts:

Corinthians 9:20-22: To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law -- though not being myself under the law -- that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law -- not being without law toward God but under the law of Christ -- that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak.

Romans 3:7: If through my lies God’s truth abounds to His glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?

Philippians 1:18: In every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Jesus is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.

The veracity of everything that Paul stated and wrote is called into question by the fact that these quotes are found in the books he himself authored. Or, did he?


Origins of the Jesus Mythos

Christianity is based on the unique belief that Jesus was God's Son, born of a virgin, sacrificed for the Salvation of man. In reality, as sacrificed virgin-born Savior Son of God, Jesus was not unique. Not even close. The Jesus mythos simply followed the traditional model of the ancient pagan savior-gods.

At the time of Jesus of Nazareth, as for centuries before, the Mediterranean world roiled with a happy diversity of creeds and rituals. Details varied according to location and culture, but the general outlines of these faiths were astonishingly similar. Roughly speaking the ancients' gods:

• Were born of a Virgin-Mother
• Were born in a Cave or Underground Chamber
• Led a life of toil for Mankind
• Were called by the names of Light-bringer, Healer, Mediator, Savior, Deliverer
• Were however vanquished by the Powers of Darkness
• And descended into Hell or the Underworld
• Rose again from the dead, and became the pioneers of mankind to the Heavenly world
• Founded Communions of Saints, and Churches into which disciples were received by Baptism
• Were commemorated by Eucharistic meals

Krishna was born of the virgin Devaki; the Savior Dionysus was born of the virgin Semele. Buddha too was born of a virgin, as were the Egyptian Horus and Osiris. The old Teutonic goddess Hertha was a virgin impregnated by the heavenly Spirit and bore a son. Scandinavian Frigga was impregnated by the All-Father Odin and bore Balder, the healer and savior of mankind.


Mithras was born in a cave, on December 25th, of a virgin mother. He came from heaven to be born as a man, to redeem men from their sin. He was know as "Savior," "Son of God," "Redeemer," and "Lamb of God." With twelve disciples he traveled far and wide as a teacher and illuminator of men. He was buried in a tomb from which he rose again from the dead -- an event celebrated yearly with much rejoicing. His followers kept the Sabbath holy, holding sacramental feasts in remembrance of Him. The sacred meal of bread and water, or bread and wine, was symbolic of the body and blood of the sacred bull.

The celebration of Christmas on December 25 was originally the pagan birthday of Mithras, the sun god, whose day of the week is still known as "Sunday." The halo of light which is usually shown surrounding the face of Jesus and Christian saints, is another concept taken from the sun god. The theme of temptation by a devil-like creature was also found in pagan mythology. In particular, the story of Jesus's temptation by Satan resembles the temptation of Osiris by the devil-god Set in Egyptian mythology.


Counter-Missionary Training

When confronted by a Christian missionary or a member of the Messianic movement, one should remember that the very existence of Jesus, and events surrounding him significant to the Christian mythos, are entirely absent from every historical record. Missionary arguments usually appeal to emotion rather than to reason; they will attempt to make you feel embarrassed about denying the historicity of Jesus. The usual response is something like "Isn't denying the existence of Jesus just as silly as denying the existence of Julius Caesar or denying the Holocaust?" One should then point out that there are ample historical sources confirming the existence of who or whatever else is named, while there exists no corresponding evidence for Jesus.


Christian scholar Rt. Rev. George Arthur Butterick, in The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, a book written by to prove the validity of the New Testament, states:

"A study of 150 Greek [manuscripts] of the Gospel of Luke has revealed more than 30,000 different readings.... It is safe to say that there is not one sentence in the New Testament in which the [manuscript] is wholly uniform."

There are 304,805 letters (approximately 79,000 words) in the Torah. In the over 3,000 years since Moses received the original Scripture from Mt. Sinai and wrote the 13 copies (twelve of which were distributed among the Tribes), spelling variants have emerged on a total of nine words -- with absolutely no effect on their meaning. The Christian Bible, in comparison, has over 200,000 variants and in 400 instances, the variants change the meaning of the text; 50 of these are of great significance.

.................................................. .

Etc...



I found this to be a very fascinating site, and would love to hear what your thoughts are regarding the information contained therein; and your thoughts on whether or not you think Messianic Judaism is an anti-Semitic movement.


Cheers,
Petra.

Amaleq13

Not specifically but that is the logical starting point for the hoped-for conversion of all people.

Christianity claims to be THE One True Faith. That means everybody else is wrong and can only become "right" by converting. It is not specifically anti-Judaism any more than it is specifically anti-Islam. It is anti-everything-not-Christian.

brighid

lunachick,

I am familiar ... or I was familiar with Counter-Missionary sites when I was a mod/manager of a Jewish Spiritual Kabballah Site and active in "Abrahamic" type forums.

My mother's husband is into Messianic Judaism, but also this hybrid Protestant/Catholic conservative, vegetarian. Wierd ... anyway ... fairly nice guy ... but they (he and my mother) begrudgingly accept Jews. However, they have told my step-sister that she should not marry a "Jew" (just as she shouldn't marry a "black" or any other "non-white, non-Catholic" man.)

I am not sure it is anti-semetic in the way skin-heads, Nazi's, and others are anti-semetic. It's more subtle, and a portrayal of their basic ignorance of Judaism, while claiming to be "Jews."

The Counter Missionaries do a pretty good job at exposing the incorrect interpretations of Judaic text, law, etc. and are a good source for atheists to refute Christian claims of Judaic, prophetic and messianic fulfillment through Christ.

Actually, my time at the Jewish and Abrahamic forums was central in my deconversion from Christianity/Catholicism.

Brighid

Demosthenes

This thread doesn't fall within this forum's mission, you'd probably get better responses in the GRD forum.

Aravnah Ornan

Regarding the reference to "the factual mistakes and absurdities that are in the New Testament," as well as the references to similarities between Christianity and paganism, am I the only one who sees the irony?

WinAce

That's a very nasty misquote! Paul is probably rolling over in his grave next to Darwin and Gould.

Romans 3:7-8
Someone might argue, 'If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?' Why not say--as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say--'Let us do evil that good may result'? Their condemnation is deserved.

Paul is actually arguing against that position, not for it! With clarifying context all around, and extensive doctoring (such as removal of quotation marks and both terminating ends of the paragraph) required to make it say what it does, I have difficulty believing whoever wrote that could have simply been mistaken.

That really ruins the whole article off the bat. The fact it regurgitates Acharya S. (?) nonsense about pre-Christian savior gods is just icing on the cake.

FYI, the other two quotes by Paul implying his dishonesty are also highly questionable. It also contains a lot of other bizarre assertions which would be better discussed in BC&H.

Verily I say unto you, even an amateur apologist could tear it to shreds with the grim efficiency of wild dogs, similar to the fate of an article from Kent "Dr. Dino" Hovind posted on E/C. Bad and misleading arguments, much less lies, benefit no one. :banghead:

Jeffrey Formosa

My topic gets closed then lunachick uses the link. Well I think the jewish have every right to defend them selfs and there doing a good job at it.

HelenM

Jeffrey, posting links with no comments is discouraged here because then people have no idea what point you're trying to make or what aspect of it you want to discuss.

Lunachick's thread is still open because she posted a question and a few comments with the link[ed material], thus showing people specifically what she wanted to discuss.

Helen

HelenM

Absolutely not, in my experience. The Messianic Jews I know were born Jewish and came to believe that Jesus is their Messiah. They retain various distinctively Jewish customs and ways of worshipping God. They are not assimilated or eradicated, nor is that their desire for other Jews, although they do try to persuade others Jews to believe that Jesus is Messiah.

Helen

lunachick

Helen is right, Jeffrey.

Last night after your topic was locked because no productive discussion was happening, I decided to re-open the topic as I found the information in the link you provided to be interesting.

Trust me, I re-opened it as much for you, as I did for me.


I've just been briefly reading as I take a break from some much needed housework, so won't reply properly until I've got all my post-Xmas/pre-New Year domestic crap out of the way.

WinAce and Brighid, thank you for your thorough and enlightening replies. I'm not a bible scholar, not even actually touched a bible in my life, to be honest, so your responses are educational for me. Thanks.

I did initially open the topic in BC&H so as to get biblical criticism from those who know more about bible studies and biblical history than I. But it got moved from there. Oh, well.


I'm still chewing the cud on the information as I vacuum, wipe, tidy, and tear my hair out because I woke to late to catch the rubbish truck this morning!


Keep the replies coming, though - I've also opened this topic at CF in their Apologetics forum, so any and all information that saupports or debunks this site is welcome. It's all good learnin' for me.

Cheers all!

Petra