Clivedurdle

What about a nano particle, a smidgen, a mustard or orchid seed of hyperbole?

rdalin

Even if it's only the size of a mustard seed!

Boomeister

Good question. I wish someone could answer that one.
It's odd. The bible is considered the final morality, yet we still have to use our own judgment.
"No, God really didn't mean that...that's hyperbole."
"You misinterpreted the text, because you are not filled with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will tell you when God is being serious and when he's just joking."


Boomeister

Naruto

I know. They're surrounded by people who want to kill them. WTF?

Boomeister

I've been curious about the scriptures that say "ask and it will be given unto you," "with just a little bit of faith, you can do miraculous things," "if two or more gather in my name."

However, dedicated Christians get terminal illnesses, live in a violent world, and suffer just like the rest of us. If these scriptures were even a little bit true, their lives would be so much better than ours. What a testament! If God really worked that way (like he promised), we would notice it.
One of my good friends died of a brain tumor. She, along with her friends and family, prayed and prayed for miracles. She was also smart enough to get medical help, as well. However, it was the chemotherapy and other treatments that helped for awhile. Medicine helped some, but ultimately she died from the brain tumor. She was one of the sweetest, nicest girls you would ever meet. She loved Jesus. She loved people. She loved taking care of children. More people need to be like her. However, all the prayers she received (which was more than most people....you should have seen her funeral service...this girl had lots of friends) did not save her from an early death.
Christians do not have this magical influence through their prayers. If God exists, then he is doing whatever he wants. He is not listening to their prayers. He is doing what's in "His will." Why didn't Jesus just say that...something like "hey, prayer doesn't always work. You can try it...it may give you some therapeutic, emotional benefits. God is going to do what God is going to do. Now accept that."


Boomeister

jagkarma

I mentioned this little point because it startled me when I first saw mustard growing, a pretty plant but wimpy, and thought that there was quite a clash with the word 'tree.' Looking around on the net I see the remarkable variety of plants called 'mustard,' some of which are largish. I'm guessing the largish ones aren't the ones with the very smallest seeds, tho. Still voting translation error, like the unicorns. http://www.moutarde.com/english/plant.htm

Madkins007

You know, when I was in my younger 'full-on fundy' mode, not a one of these questions would have slowed me or made me question my beliefs in any way.

Now that I am looking at the Bible in a different way, I STILL would be particularly bothered by these.

THEN, it would have been because for every canned question you had, I had a canned answer (did you know there are BOOKS on the subject of how ot answer this sort of thing?)

NOW it is because I would try to look at things in context (culture, audience, primary message intended, etc.)

Madkins007

I am a new-comer to preterism myself, but I am also leaning more and more towards it- but I don't see where you are getting your implications.

The idea of the return of Jesus in 70AD is not as unlikely as it sounds, if you take the descriptions he uses and look for parallels in the OT, as his audience probably would have (should have?) done. References ot 'all nations' or 'all the earth' are used often and generally only refer to the 'Jewish world' as they experienced it. Coming in the clouds was often used as a sign of a coming judgement, etc.

If you are at all interested, there is an interesting outline at http://planetpreterist.com/modules.p...showpage&pid=5

Steven Carr

There is no doubt that Matthew 24 is partly about the destruction of Jerusalem, although , according to Acts, Christians lived as though Jerusalem and the Temple were under no imminent threat, and Paul never links the return of Christ with any destruction of the Temple.

However, Matthew clearly thought that this destruction would just be the beginning of the end, and was before the return of Christ.

Matthew 24:
37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.

How did the people of Jerusalem know nothing about what would happen until the Temple was destroyed?

Matthew clearly indicates that the end would be so sudden and so unexpected, people would still be about their normal business. This cannot indicate a war, or a siege like the Roman invasion.

Madkins007

(Steven- you KNOW I will discuss this as long as you are interested, but it is also 1:30 AM here and I got to get to bed, so forgive the short answer for now!)

On the other hand, Matthew also gives a countdown of warnings...

wars and rumors of wars (in the Pax Romana in Jesus time, there were no significant wars, yet such are 'rumored' later in the NT.)

earthquakes and famine- both mentioned in Acts and other later books.

etc.

I am also unsure exactly what the relationship between the Jewish Wars, fall of the temple, and return of Christ are- what applies to what in this combination.