sugarhitman

Hellow ladies and gents supporters and crits, the skeptics has been riding me about this prophecy of the 40 year desolation of Egypt. To them this one certainly proves that Ezekiel is a false prophet, and proves the bible untrustworthy. But again they are sooo incorrect as usual. When reading this prophecy there are hints which shows that this is a future prediction, but don't take my word for it lets turn to the text.


One reason for this desolation is ofcourse because of their treatment of Israel:

"And all the inhabitants of Egypt shall know that I am the Lord, because they have been a staff of reed to the house of Israel. When they took hold of you by your hand, you did break, and tore all thier shoulder: and when they leaned upon you, you broke, and made all their loins to be at a stand."

(This seems to imply some sort of betrayal by the Egyptians when Israel leaned on them for support).


In Chapter 30 of Ezekiel according to the text, this happens in the day of the Lord:

"For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near, a cloudy day; IT SHALL BE THE TIME OF THE HEATHEN (ARMEGEDDON)" Hint 1

Hint 2 (Armegeddon) "And when I shall put you out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars there dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over you, and set darkness over your land, says the Lord God. Ch.32

Hint 3 (Armegeddon) "When I shall make the land of Egypt desolate, and the country shall be destitute of that whereof it was full, when I shall smite all them that dwell there, THEN THEY SHALL KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD." CH.32

HINT4 (Armegeddon) In the Book of Joel "Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about....Multitudes , multitudes in the valley of decision: FOR THE DAY OF THE LORD is near in the valley of decision. THE SUN AND THE MOON SHALL BE DARKENED, AND THE STARS SHALL WITHDRAW THEIR SHINING....EGYPT SHALL BE A DESOLATION, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, FOR THE VIOLENCE AGAINST THE CHILDREN OF JUDAH, BECAUSE THEY HAVE SHED INNOCENT BLOOD IN THEIR LAND." jOEL 3


Egypt is to be conquered also by the king of the north. Wait a minute now Nebuchadnezzar is the king of the north right? No. The king of the north is this mysterious prince called Gog. This is what the text say of Gog:

"Are you he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servents the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring you against them?" Eze 38 But I have never seen any reference of Gog by the prophets of the texts as being the king of the north. It was Nebuchadnezzar in Jeremiah who was coming from the north. Nebuchadnezzar is not the king of the north, but the future acts of the king of the north is told through Nebucahdnezzar as well as Antiochus in Daneil, the Assyrian in Isaiah. This king will also smite Egypt.



"Thus says the Lord God, I will also make a multitude of Egypt to cease by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. He and his people with him the terrible of the nations, shall be brought to destroy the land.." Eze 30

"And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, says the Lord, the Lord of host." Isaiah 19

"He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape." Daniel 12


After the 40 year desolation and rule of the king of the north: "And the Lord shall smite Egypt: "He shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the Lord, and He shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them....In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: whom the Lord of hosts shall bless, saying 'Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance." Isaiah 19


Conclusion: The desolation of Egypt is future, and it will end through conversion. :wave:

martini

EZ38:14 "Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say to Gog: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: In that day, when my people Israel are living in safety, will you not take notice of it? 15 You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you, all of them riding on horses, a great horde, a mighty army.

EZ39:1 "Son of man, prophesy against Gog and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of [e] Meshech and Tubal. 2 I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel. 3 Then I will strike your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...=Ezekiel+38-39

i hate to belabour the obvious issue, but are you suggesting that this "Gog" character is going to attack Israel with bows and arrows, riding on horses during this supposed future when Egypt is desolate for 40 years? does that seem a little ... uh ... DATED to you?

note there is no room for metaphor, here, either: riding ON horses, arrows in the left hand, bows in the right, etc.

WVIncagold

Very well said and i might add the following.

Well since he is only going to smite Egypt I guess the 99.9 percent of the planet really don't have a worry do we. So sometime in the near future lets say another 2000 years we can expect a 40 year desolation in Egypt. Hmmm a totally inhospitable land with finite resources and a tenuous ecosystem dependent on one river. It hasn't happened in the last 2000 years so probably the chance of it happening within the next 2000 years are I will acquiesce probable. Then again since Yahweh cant defeat iron chariots methinks we will just send a tank out and call it a day. Better yet how about some gang bangers with an Uzi and a Cadillac Escalade.

Ezekiel couldn't even predict the musket let alone Iron chariots that can lay waste to entire city's in the matter of minutes. Come back when you can prove he accurately predicts something before it happens. I am talking day time and year and precisely what is going to happen.
Keep in mind the elements for gunpowder were known and were available in China during the reign of Emperor Wu Di (156-87 B.C.) and explosive projectile technology was available just not as a weapon yet. so you think he could of been more imaginative then horses and bows and arrows. Might of well as said thrown rocks and sticks jumped up and down pounded chest. Better yet are troops going to form a dreaded phalanx?
One fire team from todays marines would devastate and entire army of the bronze age world their only problem is whether they could carry enough ammunition.

To sugarhitman:
Why do you take such glee in the worlds destruction? I can envision you salivating at all these people dieing who had NOTHING to do with your bible god or his chosen people. What part of 2000 years ago do you not get? The people today had nothing to do with the Jewish migration or any of its prophets. Besides its the Jewish god not the Christian one. Christians follow a false Prophet called Jesus and if they are in Egypt during the smiting will be smited. (isn't smite a wonderful word). I am sure it has been pointed out to you over and over again that Jews don't believe he is the Messiah because he did not fulfill ANY of their requirements.
Also when will you admit that Armageddon is not coming? so you say its soon. when? Tell everyone a precise date since you seam to have the inside scoop.
You hint its in your life time. So Next month? ten years? How about you give us a date and we accept it as the absolute truth and await the glory of bronze age warriors coming down and smiting a country the size of Georgia? Heck do it right you could probably get pay per view and make millions. :wave:

sugarhitman

Yeah maybe Ezekiel should have said "He shall come against you with tanks, and aeroplanes and assault rifles with bayonets on the end of them, he shall come against you like when America against Veitnam." Silly. Do I take glee at the destruction of the world?, no but I will do no sugar coating niether. So if I offend you too bad. :wave:

makerowner

lol, there's always room for metaphor when you're talking to fundies! (Unless it's about Genesis).
sugarhitman, all your quotes come from different chapters. Let's stick with ch. 29, shall we? What do you think of this: Did Nebuchadrezzar despoil and plunder Egypt? If your answer is yes, please provide your sources.

martini

none-the-less, you have failed to address the issues. . . does this mean you are incapable of doing so or are you going to spring it at a later time or date?

at even the very beginning of EZE38, we see nothing but nonsensical claims being made: 1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of [a] Meshech and Tubal; prophesy against him 3 and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of [b] Meshech and Tubal. 4 I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army—your horses, your horsemen fully armed, and a great horde with large and small shields, all of them brandishing their swords. 5 Persia, Cush [c] and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets, 6 also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops—the many nations with you.

Mr Hitman, this is completely COMPLETELY incomprehensible. horses and horsemen? shields, large and small? and Cush? this is just a reference to the upper Nile region. Gomer? these are CLEARLY not even extant countries! good grief. how on the good green Earth can you possibly suggest this means ANYTHING in our world, today? this is as dated as a "prophecy" can get.

Jack the Bodiless

Yes, that is exactly what happened. Egyptian aid was requested when Nebuchadnezzar threatened Jerusalem.
Nope, the word "Armageddon" appears nowhere in the text, and the "betrayal" happened in the reign of Nebuchadnezzar.

WTF has Joel got to do with this? Or Isaiah, or Daniel? Nothing at all!

Chapter 29 begins by directing the "prophecy" specifically against "Pharaoh, king of Egypt" (i.e. Amasis II, at that time).

It then goes on to predict an impressive list of calamities, including total ruin and an uninhabited wasteland for 40 years.

It then identifies Nebby as the agent of this destruction, and explains that Nebby will be rewarded with plunder from Egypt as compensation for his failure to get this from Tyre:
Nobody else. No "future fulfilment". One NAMED person: "Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon".

ANd, just in case the fundies try to separate the "depopulation" from Nebby: Ezekiel specifically makes this connection in the next chapter.
Over and over again, it is Nebby's Babylon that does this:
And yet it never happened, and Egypt enjoyed "the peak of prosperity" instead.

Darklighter

LOL, good stuff sugar! First of all you're still avoiding the fact that Ezekiel said Nebby would desolate Egypt. How can he and his army receive those "wages" if they've been dead for thousands of years? Also, [sarcasm] how kind of god to punish a people who had absolutely nothing to do with what happened back then. [/sarcasm] How ridiculous is that any prophecy that isn't fulfilled is reserved for the future, even if the TEXT DOESNT SAY SO. Even though you read it, you obviously know nothing about the Bible. To justify your claims you must ADD JUSTIFICATIONS AND CAVEATS TO GOD'S WORD which is a sin.

40 year desolation of Egypt past or future? Try: NEVER.

Jack the Bodiless

Sugarhitman:

Maybe you can answer a puzzle about fundies that's been bothering me for some time.

Presumably, as you've been trawling through Ezekiel (including the chapters which talk about the "Egypt prophecy"), you must have read all the various references to Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon?

So what happened? How does your mind edit out what you don't want to see?

Do you perceive a blank space on the page? Or do the letters Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon not get processed into actual words, so they might as well be "jhsadf ljldks dhskosef" or whatever?

Alternatively, if you're just pulling this stuff from an apologetics source without checking it: how do you feel now that these verses have been pointed out to you (assuming you've checked them by now)? And would you now have similar questions for whoever you got this stuff from?

makerowner

ERROR! ERROR! DOES NOT COMPUTE! :head explodes:
:rolling: