Johnny Skeptic

Since I am an acquaintance of Dr. Robert Price via telephone and e-mail, I asked Bob to send me some information that I could post at this forum about the dating of the Gospels. Bob sent me four files. In this post I will post file #1.


1. Revelations (mainly drawn from Bultmann, The Gospel of John: A Commentary)

"The worlds do not know thy name [Manda d'Haiye], do not understand thy light." (Mandaean Liturgy 131)

"I am hidden to them that do not grasp me, but I come to those who love me." (Odes of Solomon 42:3 f)

"They noticed me not, recognized me not and concerned themselves not about me... The man who saw and recognized me receives his way to the place of life." (Mandaean Liturgy 203)

"He revealed himself to me richly in his truthfulness,
for his kindness made his greatness small.
He became equal to me, that I might take hold of him,
in form he appeared like unto me, that I might put him on.
I did not start away when I saw him,
because he had pity on me.
He became like my nature, that I might comprehend him,
and like my form, that I should not flee from him." (Odes of Solomon 7:3 ff)

"I am the Jokabar-Kusta
who went out from the house of my father and came hither.
I came with concealed glory
and with light without end."
(Ginza 318:29 ff.)

"They sought my death, but could not find it,
for I was older than their name.
In vain they threatened me
who came into being after me.
In vain they sought to root out
the name of him who was before them!"
(Odes of Solomon 28:17 ff.)

"The true and faithful Nazoreans
will ascend and see the place of light...
They will not be kept back (in the world)
and in the great judgment they will not be called to account.
On them the judgment will not be pronounced
which will be pronounced on all beings." (Ginza 323:13 ff.)
"The worlds gather for judgment,
and they will be judged.
Judgment will be passed on those
who have not done the works of an upright man.
Thou alone, O Elect and Pure One...
Thou shalt not come before the court of judgment,
On thee no judgment shall be passed...
For thou hast done the works of an upright man."
(Ginza 512:22 ff.)

"Everyone who... hears and believes me,
For him is a dwelling prepared in the place of light.
Whoever... hears me not,
His dwelling will be removed from the place of light,
His name will be excised from my roll,
His figure will become dark and will not be bright."
(John-Book 244:18 ff.)

"Grace belongs to the elect;
who shall receive it
but those who trust in it from the very beginning?
Love belongs to the elect;
who shall receive it, but those who possessed it from the very beginning?"
(Odes of Solomon 23:2 F.)

"Their ignorance was revealed as foam,
and as the mud of swamps.
The vain men thought themselves important,
they entered into their own figure and became void.
But those who had knowledge knew them and pondered on this,
and were not sullied in their thoughts;
For their thoughts remained fixed on the Most High,
and they mocked those who walked in error."
(Odes of Solomon 18:11-14)

"The Lord guided my mouth through his word,
and opened my heart by his light.
He made immortal life dwell in me,
and made me speak of the fruit of his salvation."
(Odes of Solomon 10:1 f.)

"The great (life) has created and commissioned thee,
has arrayed, commissioned and sent thee,
and given thee authority over every thing." (Ginza 70:3 ff.)

"The great (life) called and commissioned me,
and laid his wisdom over me.
(He laid over me) the well-guarded form,
which is kept for me in the hidden places.
He laid over me love,
which shall be given to my friends,
He laid over me gentle words,
with which I should speak to my friends.
I am to speak to my friends,
and redeem them from what is transitory."
(Ginza 333:27 ff.)

"My sister, I do not ask what your caste or your family is. I am only asking you for water if you can give it to me." (Buddhist story of Ananda and the woman at the well.)

"Speaking water came to my lips
abundantly from the spring of the Lord.
I drank and became drunk
from the spring of immortality;
Yet my drunkenness was not that of ignorance,
but I departed from vanity."
(Odes of Solomon 11:6-8)

"Thereupon there called a voice of life;
A watchful ear hears.
Many heard and revived;
many wrapped themselves round
and laid themselves down (to sleep). (Ginza 596:9 ff.)

"Thou art the highest of the Treasurers,
To whom life gave dominion over every thing.
The dead heard thee and revived,
The sick heard thee and were cured." (Ginza 272:23 ff.)

"He who hears the speech of life, finds room in the Skina [=dwelling] of life." (Ginza 275:19 f.)

"But I have a stay, in that I know that I am not alone." (John-Book 39:15 f.)

(Manda d'Haiye to the messenger: ) John 8:16
"Be not anxious and afraid,
And say not, I am alone.
If fear overcomes thee,
We will all be with thee."
(Ginza 396:37 ff.)

"I am the true messenger
In whom there is no lie,
The true one in whom there is no lie,
In him there is no failing or fault."
(Ginza 59:1 ff.)

"I put it before his eyes, but he would not see,
I showed him, but he would not see with his eye."
(John-Book 175:24 f.)

"If a man put out his eyes with his own hand,
who can be his doctor?" (John-Book 179:18 ff.)

"Have confidence in Manda d'Haiye. Like a good shepherd who keeps watch, he will keep far from you all spirit of apostasy. Like a good shepherd who leads his sheep to their fold, he will set you down and plant you down before him." (John-Book 42:19 ff.)

"I am a shepherd, who loves his sheep." (John-Book 42:27 ff.)

"I carry the sheep thence, and give them water to drink out of my cupped hand... I bring them to the good fold, and they graze near me." (45:3 ff.)

"No wolf jumps near our fold, and they need have no fear of the fierce lion... No thief penetrates into the fold, and they need not worry about an iron knife." (45:11 ff.)

"My little sheep! My little sheep, come! Follow my call! ... Everyone who has heard my call and taken heed of my voice and turned his gaze on me I will seize with both hands.... Everyone who did not hear my call sank." (48:1 ff.)

"The coming of Hibil-Uthra [the angel Abel] is like the coming if Sitil [Seth-el],
when he goes to the house of his friends.
When the disciples heard the voice of Anos [Enosh], of the great Uthra,
They honored and praised the great life [Manda d'Haiye] beyond measure."
(Mandaean Liturgy 205)

"Know my knowledge,
Ye who are truly known of me;
Love me fiercely;
Ye who are loved of me!
For I turn not my face from mine own.
Because I know them." (Odes of Solomon 8:12 ff..)

"My measure is full and I go forth" (Left Ginza 3:15, 34, 44)
"I am redeemed, my measure is full" (22)
"(I) became anxious and made my soul anxious" (Ginza 328:26)
"I was terrified, anxiety came upon me." (Ginza 503:5)
He is anxious at the impinging Powers of darkness and prepares to leave this world. He "raises his eyes to the place of light." He cries, "Whom shall I call, and who will answer me, who will be a helper to me?" His lament and cry for help receive an answer. "There came the call of the great helper" (Left Ginza 477:25 ff.): "To us thou shalt ascend." (457:1)

"There was a voice in heaven (or in the soul), a thunder in the house of the stars." (Mandaean Liturgy 2:10) when the Messenger ascends, signifying the judgment of the world is at hand.

"And nothing appeared closed to me;
Because I was the opening of everything.
And I went towards all the bondsmen to loose them;
That I might not leave any man bound or binding."
(Odes of Solomon 17:10 ff.)

"Thereupon I fulfilled in order the works which my Father had set me. I pressed down the darkness, and raised up the light to a high degree. Without a mistake I ascended..." (John-Book 224:17 f.)

"And I imparted my knowledge without grudging
And my prayer was in my love; and I sowed
My fruits in hearts, and transformed them into myself;
And they received my blessing and lived;
And they were gathered to me and were saved."
(Odes of Solomon 17:12 ff.)

"I planted plants of life,
Genuine, believing men.
I command my builder,
Direct your eyes to my plants." (Mandaean Liturgy 190 f.)

"The brightness of life rests on me,
It rests on my disciples,
Whom the Seven in this world persecute."
(Mandaean Liturgy 208)

"You came from the House of Life,
You came, what did you bring us?
I brought to you that you do not die,
That your souls be not imprisoned.
For the day of death I brought you life,
For the dreary day, joy."
(Mandaean Liturgy 196).
"Endure to the end, and live in the house of misery." (Ginza 463:1 ff.)

"He revealed hidden mysteries and laid his splendours on his friends." (Mandaean Liturgy 193).

"Be my splendour, and I will be your splendour;
Be my light, and I will be your light." (Mandaean Liturgy 128)

"If it is thy wish... let the measure of my disciples be made full,
and so may my disciples arise to the place of light." (John-Book 236:26 ff.)

"I and my friends of the Kusta (= alhJeia) will find our place in the Skina (=dwelling) of life." (John-Book 161:3 f.)

"And his members are with him.
And on them do I hang, and he loves me:
I love the beloved,
and I am loved by Him.
Where his rest is, there also am I
And I shall be no stranger." (Odes of Solomon 3:2, 5)

"A vine am I, a vine of life,
a tree in which there is no falsehood.
The tree of praise,
from which every one who smells at it comes alive.
Whoever hears his word,
his eyes are filled with light." (Right Ginza 2:3, from Foerster, Gnosis, II, 229)

"The vine which bears (fruit) ascends,
(The vine) which bears nothing is cut off here (from the light),
Whoever is enlightened and instructed by me
rises and beholds the place of life.
Whoever is not enlightened and instructed by me
is cut off (from the light), and falls into the great ocean of Suf." (John-Book 214:1, Foerster, Gnosis, II, 233)

"Manda d'Haiye revealed himself in Judah,
a vine appeared in Jerusalem,
before which no wickedness stands.
No kingly pride adorns his head,
nor does he have the form of an idol creature.
He is the Life, which was from time immemorial,
kusta, which existed away back in the beginning."
(Right Ginza 5:2, in Foerster, Gnosis, II, 300-301)
"I am a tender vine...
And the great (life) was my planter." (Ginza 301:10 ff.)

"My heart was cloven, And its flower appeared: And grace sprang up in it: And it brought forth fruit to the Lord." (Odes of Solomon 11:1 f.)

"And thy pure shoots are to thrive excellently... they are to be untied with thee, and not to
be cut off" (Mandaean Liturgy 252 f.)

"Abide strong and steadfast in me, you who know me... my friends.. do not change the discourse of my mouth..." (Mandaean Liturgy 217)

"Abide in the love of the Lord,
Ye beloved ones in the Beloved;
Ye who are kept, in Him that liveth:
Ye who are saved in Him that was saved." (Odes of Solomon 8:23)

"Let your love be multiplied from the heart, even unto the lips,
to bring forth as fruit to the Lord holy joy." (Odes of Solomon 8:1 f.)

"I have separated you from the peoples and generations,
I will establish you for the truth in love..." (Ginza 179:25)

"Thou hast chosen us out and raised us from the world of hatred, of jealousy and discord..." (Mandaean Liturgy 75)

"Instruct the Nasoreans, Mandaeans and elected ones whom Thou hast chosen from the world, who are persecuted in the name of the life in the Tibil (earthly world)." (Manda d'Haiye to Enosh Uthra, Ginza 296:18)

Adam brings before Manda d'Haiye the "legal case with reference to the world."
(Ginza 436:28 ff.)

"Yes, I have come to love my Lord Manda d'Haiye, (and hope)
That in him, there will come to be a helper for me,
A helper and a sustainer, From the place of darkness to the place of light."
(Mandaean Liturgy 212)

"The figure of the helper... has also become an independent mythological being, carrying the title Jawar = Helper, as its proper name. It often takes the place of Manda d'Haiye, or stands beside him; more often one finds the combination Jawar Manda d'Haiye; so too it takes the place of Hibil [Abel], or is combined with it. It is said of Jawar, e.g., that he establishes dwellings for the righteous, that he institutes baptism; he is the Revealer, who has held gentle and sincere discourses; he receives from the divinity the title 'our word,' 'word of life;' because of his name the believers separate themselves; for his sake they are persecuted." (Bultmann, 571)

"I will go to assign a place to Hibil [Abel] in the new abode, and then I will come quickly to you. Do not be afraid of the sword of the planets, and let there b no fear of anxiety among you. Afterwards, certainly, I come to you... Truly I am with you. Every time that you seek me you will find me; every time that you call me I will answer you. I am not far from you." (Ginza 235:33)

"Do not be afraid or anxious; and do not say, 'They have left me behind in this world of evil,' for I am coming to you soon." (Manda d'Haiye to Anos [Enosh], Ginza 261:15)

"Behold, I am going to the house of life now, and then I will come and free you from the evils and sins of this world... I will lead you up on the way on which Hibil [Abel] the righteous and Sitil [Seth-el] and Manda d'Haiye are ascending, away from this world of evils."
(Ginza 268:4 ff.)

Continue steadfast in thy assurance,
Until thy lot is complete.
When thy lot is complete,
I myself will come to thee.
I will bring thee robes of brilliance...
I will free thee from the evils,
I will rescue thee from the sinners.
I will let thee live in thy Skina (dwelling),
In a pure place I will rescue thee." (Mandaean Liturgy 226)

"Thou art he who builds up, and brings out from the midst of nations... everyone who is called, desired and invited. To everyone whose lot is full, thou art a great helper, guide and leader to the great place of light and to the brilliant dwelling." (Mandaean Liturgy 138)

"Thou hast shown us the way, along which thou hast come out of the house of life. Along it we want to make the journey of true, believing men, so that our soul and our spirit abide in the Skina [dwelling] of life." (Mandaean Liturgy 38).

"Thou camest, hast opened the door, made level the way, trodden out the path... Thou wast a helper, guide and leader to the great race of life. Thou hast... brought it out to the great place of light, and to the shining dwelling." (Mandaean Liturgy 134 f.)

"I have leveled a way from darkness to the bright dwelling." (John-Book 198:20 f.)

The Kusta is the "way of the perfect, the path that ascends to the place of light." (Ginza 95)
"Thou hast brought us out of death. Thou hast shown us the way of life, and hast made us walk the path of truth and faith." (Mandaean Liturgy 77).

"Thou art the way of the perfect, the path that ascends to the place of light. Thou art the life from eternity... Thou art the truth without error." (Ginza 271:26 ff.)

"I brought them ["men of tested righteousness"] secret discourses, so that they show their miraculous powers to the ill-disposed." (Ginza 319:3 f.)

"You will call,
and soon I will answer.
You will pray with your hand,
and I will not reject it with my hand." (Mandaean Liturgy 140)

"(Behold) the house of my acquaintances,
who know of me,
that among them I dwell,
In the hearts of my friends,
in the mind of my disciples." (Mandaean Liturgy, 198)

"I come, to examine the hearts...
To see in whose heart I dwell,
In whose mind I find rest." (Ginza 389:23)

(The Helper comes to the Soul and says: )
"Thou shalt dwell with me,
and in thy heart will we find a place."
(Ginza 461:15 ff.)

"Thou (the Kusta) art life from eternity,
thou who wentest in, and found a place in (every) steadfast heart." (Ginza 271:29 f.)

2. Signs

"There is an old theatre and shrine of Dionysos between the marketplace and the Menius. The statue of the god is the work of Praxiteles. Of the gods, the Eleans worship especially Dionysus, indeed they say their god invades the Thyra [temple to Dionysus] during the annual feast... The priests carry three kettles into the building and set them down empty, when the town citizens and strangers happen to be there, are present. The priests, and any others who wish, put a seal on the doors of the building.... In the morning they come to read the signs and when they go into the building they find the kettles filled with wine. These things the most trustworthy men of Elis, and strangers with them, swear to have happened. This is by word of mouth; I myself did not arrive at festival time." (Pausanias, Description of Greece 6.26.1 ff., D.R. Cartlidge, trans.)

"Now it is well that I should not pass over what happened in the Temple, while relating the life of a man who was held in esteem even by the gods. For an Assyrian stripling came to Asclepius, and though he was sick, yet he lived the life of luxury, and being continually drunk, I will not say he lived, rather he was ever dying. He suffered then from dropsy, and finding his pleasure in drunkenness took no care to dry up his malady. On this account then Asclepios took no care of him, and did not visit him even in a dream. The youth grumbled at this, and thereupon the god, standing over him, said, 'If you were to consult Apollonius you would be easier.' He therefore went to Apollonius and said: 'What is there in your wisdom that I can profit by? for Asclepius bids me consult you.' And he replied: 'I can advise you of what, under the circumstances, will be most valuable to you; for I suppose you want to get well.' 'Yes, by Zeus,' answered the other, 'I want the health which Asclepius promises, but never gives.' 'Hush,' said the other, 'for he gives to those who desire it, but you do things that irritate and aggravate your disease, for you give yourself up to luxury, and you accommodate delicate viands upon your water-logged and worn-out stomach, and as it were choke water with a flood of mud.' [And]... the sage restored the youth to health by a clear interpretation of the wise saw." (Philostratus, Life of Apollonius of Tyana I:9)

"In the Egyptian myth, Osiris, who dies, has two sisters, Isis and Nephthys. Osiris lies dead at Annu, the Egyptian necropolis, known in Greek as Heliopolis and in the Old Testament as Beth-shemesh (Jer. 43:13) - 'City of the Sun' and 'House of the Sun' respectively. This necropolis had a variety of formulaic names in Egypt: 'the mansion of the Prince in On,' 'the House of the Aged Prince who dwelleth in An,' the 'great house of Anu.' Just as Heliopolis was readily semitized as Beth-shemesh, the House of Anu is readily semitized as Beth-anu. Likewise 'Lazarus' (the Greek form of the Hebrew name 'Eleazer') readily associates itself with the name of the god Osiris (semitized as El-Osiris)...

"According to Wallis-Budge, the 'body of the Aged One, a name of Osiris, reposed in Annu.' Lazarus lies in his tomb at Bethany. The dead one is bewailed by his sisters. According to Utterance 670 of the Pyramid texts, 'they come to Osiris the king at the sound of the weeping of Isis, at the cry of Nephthys, at the wailing of these two spirits.' At Bethany, Jesus saw 'Mary weeping and the Jews her companions weeping' (John11:33). Of the dead god in Annu it is said: 'O Osiris the King, you have gone, but you will return; you have slept, [but you will awake]; you have died, but you will live' (Utterance 670). On learning of the death of Lazarus, Jesus says, 'Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I shall go and wake him' (John 11:11). Jesus approaches the tomb and says 'Take away the stone' (John11:39). To Osiris it is said, 'The tomb is opened for you, the doors of the tomb-chamber are thrown open for you' (Utterance 665A). Objecting to Jesus' demand, Martha says, 'Sir, by now there will be a stench; he has been there four days' (John 11:39). After Osiris is resurrected, we are told in Utterance 670, 'Osiris speaks to Horus, for he has removed the evil [which was on the King] on his fourth day.' Moreover, according to Utterance 412, Osiris is told, as he lies dead in the House of Annu, 'O flesh of the king, do not decay, do not rot, do not smell unpleasant.' The dead one in Annu/Bethany is then told to arise: 'I am Horus, O Osiris the King, I will not let you suffer. Go forth, wake up' (Utterance620); 'Then he raised his voice in a great cry: "Lazarus, come forth"' (John 11:43). The wrappings of the dead must be removed: 'O King, live for you are not dead. Horus must come to you that he may cut your cords and throw off your bonds; Horus has removed your hindrance' (Utterance 703); 'The dead man came out, his head and feet swathed in linen bands, his face wrapped in a cloth. Jesus said, "Loose him; let him go"' (John 11:44). (Randel Helms, Gospel Fictions, 98-99).

"'... no one is going to kill us.' 'And who,' said Damis, 'is so invulnerable as that? But will you ever be liberated?' 'So far as it rests with the verdict of the court,' said Apollonius, 'I shall be set at liberty this day, but so far as depends upon my own will, now and here.' And with these words he took his leg out of the fetters and remarked to Damis: 'Here is proof positive to you of my freedom, so cheer up.' Damis says that it was then for the first time that he really and truly understood the nature of Apollonius, to wit, that it was divine and superhuman, for without any sacrifice, - and how in prison could he have offered any? - and without a single prayer, without even a word, he quietly laughed at the fetters, and then inserted his leg in them afresh, and behaved like a prisoner once more." (Philostratus, Life of Apollonius of Tyana, VII:39, Conybeare trans.)

"This accuser... held in his hands a scroll of paper on which the charge was written out, and he brandished it like a sword against the sage, and declared that it was so sharp that it would slay and ruin him. But when Tigellinus unrolled the scroll unrolled the scroll, and did not find upon it the trace of a single word or letter, and his eyes fell on a perfectly blank book, he came to the conclusion that he had to do with a demon... Tigellinus then took his victim apart into a secret tribunal, in which this class of magistrate tries in private the most important charges; and having ordered all to leave the court he plied him with questions, asking who he was. Apollonius gave his father's name and that of his country, and explained his motive in practicing wisdom, declaring that the sole use he made of it was to gain a knowledge of the gods and an understanding of human affairs, for that the difficulty of knowing another man exceeded that of knowing oneself.... 'And,' said the other, 'Could you prophesy if I asked you to?'" (Philostratus, Life of Apollonius of Tyana IV:44, Conybeare trans.)

"The grave robbers closed the tomb carelessly; they were careless in the night. Chaireas was guarding and toward dawn he approached the tomb, supposedly to bring crowns and jewels, but really he had in mind to kill himself. For he did not admit that he was unbetrothed from Kallirroe, and he considered death to be the only healer of grief. When he came close, however, he found the stones moved away and the entrance open. He looked in and was shocked, seized by a great perplexity at what had happened. Rumor made an immediate report to the Syracusans about the miracle. All then ran to the tomb; no one dared to enter until Hermocrates ordered it. One was sent in, and he reported everything accurately. It seemed incredible--the dead girl was not there. The Chaireas thought he ought to see again the dead Kallirroe; but when he searched the tomb he was able to find nothing. Many came in after him, disbelieving. Amazement seized everyone, and some said as they stood there, 'The shroud has been stripped off, this is the work of grave-robbers; but where is the body?' Many gossips and rumor-mongers were busy in the multitude. But Chaireas looked up to heaven and stretched forth his hands, 'Who of the gods, being my rival, has carried off Kallirroe and now has her with him?'" (Chariton, Chaireas and Kallirroe, 3:3. D.R. Cartlidge trans.)

"'I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who enter and serve before the glory of the Lord.' Stricken with fear, the two men fell to the ground. But Raphael said to them, 'No need to fear; you are safe. Thank God now and forever. As for me, when I came to you it was not out of any favor on my part, but because it was God's will. So continue to thank him every day; praise him with song. Even though you watched me eat and drink, I did not really do so; what you were seeing was a vision. So now get up from the ground and praise God. Behold, I am about to ascend to him who sent me; write down all these things that have happened to you. When Raphael ascended, they rose to their feet and could no longer see him. They kept thanking God and singing his praises; and they continued to acknowledge these marvelous deeds which he had done when the angel of God appeared to them." (Tobit 12:15-22, New American Bible)

"This young boy would never agree to the immortality of the soul. 'I, my friends, am completing the tenth month of praying to Apollonius to reveal to me the nature of the soul. But he is completely dead so as never to respond to my begging, nor will I believe he is not dead.' Such were the things he said then, but on the fifth day after that they were busy with these things and he suddenly fell into a deep sleep right where he had been talking. Now, the rest of the youths studying with him were reading books and busily incising geometric shapes on the earth, when he, as if insane, suddenly leaped to his feet, still seeming to be asleep, the perspiration running off him, and cried out, 'I believe you!' When those present asked him what was wrong, he said, 'Do you not see Apollonius the sage, how he stands here among us, listening to the argument and singing wonderful verses concerning the soul?' 'Where is he?' they said, 'for he has not appeared to us, even though we wish this more than to have all mortal wealth.' But the youth replied, 'It seems he came to discuss with me alone concerning the things which I would not believe.'" (Philostratus, Life of Apollonius of Tyana, VIII:31, D.L. Dungan, trans.)

"At that time he [Pythagoras] was going from Sybaris to Krotona. At the shore, he stood with men fishing with nets; they were still hauling the nets weighed down [with fish] from the depths. He said he knew the number of fish that they had hauled in. The men agreed to do what he ordered, if the number of fish was as he said. He ordered the fish to be set free, living, after they were counted accurately. What is more astonishing, in the time they were out of the water, none of them died while he stood there. He paid them the price of the fish and went to Krotona. They announced the deed everywhere, having learned his name from some children." (Iamblichus, Life of Pythagoras 36:60 f, 134-136. D.R. Cartlidge trans.)

Johnny Skeptic

Here is the third file that Dr. Robert Price sent me:

Drew University Graduate School
1997

1. Synagogue Reform Movement (a la Burton L. Mack): Jesus is upheld at first as no more than a/the Prophet and "a teacher sent from God" whose "Signs" function as rule miracles on behalf of his distinctive liberal halakah, which survive in the Johannine sabbath controversy stories.

At this stage of the game, the Johannines are strong group: their reformist activities (or perhaps better, halakhic debates) imply both a strong mutual subgroup identity and a strong sense of identification with the synagogue, which after all they seek to reform, not to compete with.

But they are low grid, first, in that they do not regard allegiance to Jesus as determinative, i.e., non-adherents are not yet seen as reprobate, since they seem to regard fellow-members of synagogues as Jews in good standing. Here we might compare Jewish attitudes toward Akiva, adherent of a false messiah. Second, their halakah tends to liberalize sabbath restrictions.

Rabbinic evidence preserves three halakah from Jesus adduced in intra-Jewish debate (daughters are to inherit equally; the denoation of a prostitute can be used to buy a toilet for the high priest; he has come neither to take away or to add to the Torah). This means that even in Jewish tradition Jesus was remembered as a (Jewish) source of halakah.

2. Messianic Sect: I would guess that, as the halakah was more and more assimilated (not being all that controversial in the first place, as Synoptic parallels in the Mishnah indicate), focus and friction centers more and more on the only remaining point of difference: the importance of Jesus himself. That Jesus is a teacher sent from God is not hard to accept; that he is the Messiah is a different matter, and this now arises to new importance: all there is left to disagree about! (In the same way, arguments between fundamentalists and Pentecostals tend to major on minors, since they are in agreement on majors. But the more you disagree, the more major the minors seem to become!)

(Note how in Synoptics, in retrospect, because of subsequent Christological rift, the halakic views of the synagogue are caricatured, so as to read the Jesus-Jews vs. synagogue Jews rift back into that earlier period, as if they had never agreed on anything!)

Two sub-groups come into view at this point:

(a) Nicodemus types, who accept Jesus as a teacher whose halakah they follow, but who cannot go all the way with the messiah business (c.f., non-messianic Lubavitchers today). The very existence of an early stage in which Jesus was remembered as a sage and a source of halakah with no reference to messianism may imply that he was not first deemed messiah but only, like Rebbe Schneerson, was elevated to messiahship after his death by the most arduous of his followers.

(b) Joseph of Arimathea types who do believe Jesus is the messiah but fear to confess their faith lest they be expelled. The man born blind is held up as the example to follow here.

This means stronger group in that a parting of the ways has become necessary, severing the ties with the parent group, drawing all the closer to one's fellow sectarians. And grid rises in that the lines dividing what was formerly a sub-group have now become markers of primary identity.

Once the (or some) Johannines are excommunicated from the synagogue, they develop the doctrine of Jesus as the true Hanukkah light, shepherd, water of life, etc. He replaces the institutions of Judaism, just as prayer and fasting replace sacrifice at sectarian Qumran. (Similarly, cf. new sectarian Torahs at Qumran, Jubilees, Matthew), but it is still in a Jewish framework.

3. Missionary Movement: In the gospel we witness at this stage Johannines being excommunicated from the synagogue over messianic confession of Jesus. This prompts (as with Acts and Romans 11) a turning to Samaritans and Gentiles. The onus of the impurity of these groups (cf. the business about Jews and Samaritans not using the same dishes in chapter 4) comes to attach itself to the Johannine community who are shunned, even persecuted.

The Johannine texts about God loving the world (sheep not of this flock) and sending his son to die for the world come from this period.

The contact with Gentiles and Samaritans results in assimilation of theological and mythological themes, such as Dionysus motifs, communion as blood-drinking and flesh-eating, Jesus as the Taheb. The debates with Jews or Johannines who value their Abrahamic descent reflects debates over the propriety of either the mission itself, the threat to Jewish priority in the movement, or the theo-mythical borrowings. We see parallels with Pauline Abraham polemics in Romans and Galatians. The disparaging of Jesus' brothers stems from these tensions, as the Pillars of Jerusalem disapproved of and opposed their work.

At this stage we can see a group of Johannines falling away, unable to brook the mystery-religion sacrament, outrageous to Jewish sensibilities. The more this rite comes under attack, again, the more elevated it becomes, to the point of being needful for salvation (John 6). This means a higher grid requirement and a further weeding out process and defensive fortress mentality, even while on another front theological/mythical assimilation denotes a shift in grid.

In chapter 13's feet-washing story (as well as chapter 20's "Johannine Pentecost," we are witnessing a raising of internal grids, since now the washing of baptism is not quite enough anymore. Postbaptismal sin must be dealt with via a sacrament of penance.

Those who leave (for Judaism? Or only another Johannine or other Christian faction?) are bade good riddance since the father hadn't really drawn them to the Son of Man anyway (cf., Mark 4; 1 Peter 1). They were never of Jesus' flock and were thus incapable of hearing his voice. This leads to the next phase (#4 below), where God does not love the world but has sent his son to redeem his elect out of the world.

At this point, perhaps by way of Samaritan influence, Johannines begin referring to their opponents as "the Jews," and themselves as true children of Abraham (a la Paul's gentiles) or true Israelites (i.e., not Jews but from the north).

4. A New Religion: The elevation of Jesus to a status "equal to God" represents a full and intentional severance from Judaism. (Cf., current Roman Catholic urgings to officially elevate Mary to Co-Redemptrix, a move that many bemoan for the danger of subverting ecumenism.) We read Gnostic-type sneers at Jewish rituals, pedigrees, scriptures. Jesus is now greater than Jacob and Abraham, which means they are being negated, Jesus substituted, Jewish identity jettisoned.

When the figurehead becomes God it means he has become the object of faith of a whole new self-contained communal and symbolic world in which his adherents live. A savior-Christology implied redemption of the world ("Christ transforming culture"), but a creator God Christology means the public world has been abandoned for a sheltered sectarian sub-world. Radical isolation, loving neither the world nor the things in the world.

The "out-of-this-world" alien messiah theme denotes, a la Wayne Meeks, a "stranger in a strange land" mentality among the Johannines, akin to UFO sects in our day.

Rituals become less important, a la Neyrey, since they hadn't guaranteed true faith (cf. didn't stop drop-outs). Or, more generally, they were held in common between two groups who found occasion to dispute over other matters. Thus rituals are taken for granted, no longer the shibboleth, and recede in importance. The new shibboleth is doctrinal. "Unless you believe that I Am..."

The sayings tradition, still visible here and there in the gospel, becomes subject to charismatic reinterpretation just as the Jewish scriptures had already been, The Johannines are heading somewhere else. Neyrey, a la Mary Douglas, says this is a case of a movement with high grid "norming" the spirit, i.e., the earthly Jesus is still used as a criterion (or really, a diving board) for new revelation. The past (of Jesus) is valued as a norm for the present (revelations) and for the activity of the Spirit, which must function as the Spirit of Jesus.

5. Gnostic Bodhisattvas: Rift occasioned by Johannine itinerant prophets (who speak by the Paraclete), some of whom are getting new docetic and gnostic revelations, tending to greater asceticism and otherworldliness. Low grid/weak group. As Mary Douglas says, symbolic repudiation of flesh correlates with anti-institutionalism and with disdain for "carnal" sacraments (cf., Ignatius' docetists who rejected the eucharist).

The perfectionist teaching attested for the itinerants in 1 John should be seen as a complete transcendence of the Johannine concern for postbaptismal sin and purification: it is wiped away in a single broad stroke: no sin anymore! "He cannot sin, for he was born of God."

Hence as itinerants with minimal connection to "mission HQ," they are lone wolves, loose cannons, weak group.

Low grid means fewer criteria, less reference to the past to "norm" the Spirit, which now "blows where it listeth" and is "another Paraclete." New revelations make less effort to be faithful to the earthly Jesus, because "I am not of this world." We are rapidly on our way to the revelations, still but only nominally attributed to Jesus, of the Apocryphon of John. The opponents of Gnostic Johannines (see below) still attempt to use precisely past reference (Jesus Christ came in the flesh) to norm the Spirit (1 John 4).

As for Gnostic revealers being low-grid, cf., Irenaeus on the Valentinians (big fans of John's gospel): they encourage each one to create his own doctrinal innovations.

The itinerants are rivals to local elders/bishops (charismatic vs. institutional authority), vying for support of congregation in general and consecrated widows in particular. The former tilted toward bishops, the latter toward the former, who were their major advocates. Itinerants had more to say to fellow ascetics, the widows, even though they were a strong-group, than to householders, who admired their radicalism but were not about to emulate it.

Realized Eschatology material in John's Gospel stems from this group. Futuristic eschatology stems from older group, though it may well appear, as Bultmann said, as a reaction, a corrective redaction by non-Gnostic element. Note that the Realized eschatology appears prominently, as does the Paraclete theme, in the Farewell Discourse(s), itself an anticipation or reflection of the same Gnostic Revelation Dialogue genre we see full-blown in the Apocryphon of John.

As in the Pastoral Epistles, the realized eschatology of the schismatics reinforces the futuristic eschatology of the traditionalists because the latter take the existence of the former as evidence of the coming end!

Acts of John (a la Stevan L. Davies, The Revolt of the Widows) enshrine
(1) resumes of Johannine itinerants, and
(2) docetic Christology both
(a) enhances their own apostolic/Christic persona (Schmithals, Theissen, Georgi) and
(b) prescribes asceticism (their own practice of which further enhances their clout).

Apocryphon of John preserves Gnostic revelations articulating their "stranger in a strange land" world-&-self view. This is in direct progression from the "equal with God/creator of the world" Christology: if that Christology symbolized the sectarian insularity of the Johannine community in # 4, Gnosticism fits the utter denial of the body/world--Jesus is now higher than the creator God and is not a world creator! The world creator is evil and inferior!

The Johannine Epistles
The "sinlessness" debated in 1 John was part of the spiritualism of the Johannine Gnostics. They were either ascetics (Holiness doctrine) or libertines ("all things are lawful").

The emergence of an even higher Christology, docetism, becomes the watershed again, both sides repudiating one another, as they probably had in the preceding stages of the conflict (e.g., over Jesus' messianism).

The Gnostic rift became evident when a few itinerants kept their new revelations to themselves until they arrived in various local Johannine communities, where they prophesied the docetic doctrine in the Elder's name, the parent community's name.

This new doctrine so outraged Diotrephes, a local bishop, that he expelled the itinerants, concluded their prophecy represented the new Johannine party line, and severed all links with the Johannine movement, warning his people not to harbor or aid the itinerants anymore.

When the docetist brethren got back to mission central, they naturally did not report their ill-treatment lest their secret come out into the open. Apparently they feared the Elder would not favor their doctrine, and they wanted to continue to use the prestige of the Elder's movement to spread their views for as long as they could. So the next pair of non-docetist Johannine itinerants went forth and found every door of Diotrephes' community slammed in their faces, save only for that of Gaius who either was not aware of the ban or did not understand it. The itinerants, thus prevented from ministering in the church, moved on, mystified. Returning to headquarters, they told the Elder of their experience.

The Elder, inferring that Diotrephes simply wanted no outside supervision/interference, sat down and fired off the (unread) letter to Diotrephes mentioned in 3 John. With no answer forthcoming, he sent 3 John itself to Gaius, his only liaison with Diotrephes' church. Through all this, the Elder knew nothing of docetic prophecies, much less of Diotrephes' assumption that the Elder himself is the fountainhead of the docetic heresy. At length, as anticipated in 3 John, the Elder arrived in person to confront Diotrephes. They compared notes and realized what had happened. The Elder excommunicated the known docetist itinerants, but on the chance there are others who are keeping mum, he wrote 2 John to Kyria's church, having adopted Diotrephes closed-door policy. He then followed this up with 1 John as an encyclical. He had no list of names, but he provided the doctrinal shibboleths: eject any docetists or separationists who come your way.

The Texts
I suggest that each faction along this path of historical evolution and mitosis of the Johannine community had its own copy of the Gospel of John. As each new stage emerged, additions were made to update the Gospel. When, as presumably happened, a copy containing the distinctive themes of one faction came into the hands of the other faction (e.g., when a scribe switched sides, taking his copy with him), it would receive theological corrections in the margins, which would then be inserted right into the text during the next copying. Finally, once many of these debates were dead and forgotten, an eclectic text was produced, harmonizing all the texts the scribes could find. This gave us our extant Gospel of John. The same thing happened with 1 John, which contains both perfectionist and anti-perfectionist readings.

The Apocalypse of John gives evidence of the same intra-Johannine anti-Gnostic struggle, Jezebel and the Nicolaitans corresponding to the docetists of the other letters. The angels of the churches are the Johannine itinerants. That textual tampering was anticipated is clear from the warning to abstain from it! But it has happened nonetheless: the revelation of the Seven Thunders has either been excised or a false notice of its excision has been added to provide a toehold for the Nicolaitan scripture Thunder Perfect Mind.

andrewcriddle

One of the problems with parallels between Mandaean texts and the Gospel of John is the dating of the Mandaean material.

Bultmann regarded some of this as pre-Christian. Most modern scholars are reluctant to date Mandaean ideas this early and think 2nd and 3rd century CE dates for the early forms of Mandaean gnosis more likely.

Andrew Criddle

Ben C Smith

Johnny, I really appreciate you posting these files. Price is an innovative scholar, one that I enjoy reading very much.

Ben.

Johnny Skeptic

You are quite welcome. Bob is my favorite skeptic Bible scholar. He is also a wonderful person. It is a lot of fun for me to exchange e-mails with him so that I can enjoy his informal comments.

Toto

Johnny was kind enough to send me the original word documents of what appear to be class or lecture notes, and I have added some formatting to make things easier to follow.