Faithful

That could very well be. I said " Caleb and Joshua were the only two who survived to enter the promised land because the Israelites were often disobedient and whined and complained the whole 40 years..Moses and Arraon weren't allowed to go into the promised land because they didn't show good leadership when everyone complained."

God told Moses and Aaron they couldn't go because of the above reason in the scripture I quoted, and the rest of the Israelites weren't allowed to go into the promised land because of their rebelling against God and complaining. What should have been a 11-day trip took them 40 years because of it.

Numbers 14:34" `Because the men who explored the land were there for forty days, you must wander in the wilderness for forty years--a year for each day, suffering the consequences of your sins. You will discover what it is like to have me for an enemy.' 35I, the LORD, have spoken! I will do these things to every member of the community who has conspired against me. They will all die here in this wilderness!"

Can you provide a chapter and verse. God threatened him with exile, but Manasseh asked for forgiveness before it happened.

I said -" The Bible only mentions Mosera,etc once or twice in the Bible. The Bible says that Aaron died on top of Mt. Hor. I would gather that it would be Moserah."
I meant to say it would be 'in' Moserah. The mountain would have to be located in a district of some sort. The Rockie Mountains are located in British Columbia.

Faithful

Do you have Bible verses to clearly support this claim?

Amaleq13

The fact that Quirinius was made governor a decade after Herod died is something you have to look outside the Bible to learn. Refusing to learn any facts not contained in the Bible is the intellectual equivalent of sticking one's head in the sand.

John Kesler

And as I said, there are other passages which teach that Moses' exclusion from the promised land was because of the Israelites' disobedience--not his own.


I provided scriptural references in my initial post, but here they are again:
2 Kings 21:11-14; 2 Kings 24:1-4.

This is the standard explanation of Christian apologists, but it doesn't work, because as I posted previously, Numbers 33:15-37 places Moserah between Sinai and Mt. Hor, so Mt. Hor couldn't be part of Moserah.

Doug Shaver

Oh, I get it now. Your mind is made up, don't confuse you with the facts.

Which is what I suspected. Nice to see a Christian admit it for once, though.

Sven

No. You nowhere addressed Noah.

I see. Arguments which are only implied are apparently too difficult to you. So let me write it out in clear words: Something being written in a book is not an argument ever. Reality is not something one chooses.

So you agree that the above makes no sense in our understanding of the world?

And please explain why an omnipotent being can not defeat evil instantly, why it needs a plan which takes thousands upon thousands of years.

This is the problem with Christianity: As soon as you look a bit closer, it makes no sense at all. I am not able to believe in something completely nonsensical. So if your god indeed exists, it's clearly not my fault that I don't believe in him, but his because he left no explanations for this nonsense. Nevertheless, I will be taken accountable for my disbelief (again assuming that your god exists). Again: Is this justice?

Sven

Because reality says that Herod died ten years before Quirinius reigned.
What exactly don't you understand here?

I see. You don't care that there are contradictions because there are none. Convincing argument! :thumbs:

FatherMithras

As shown by your posts, you seem to believe that you can go against the clearly known reality of the world and just force fit whatever you want to be real. This was something that could have happened in the past, but didn't. That's like writing a history of the US and saying "clinton could have been assassinated, so I'll believe it!"

Didymus

That's nice. Do you actually think there's scientific evidence for that ridiculous assertion?

So how does that square with personal responsibility? And consequences?

Apparently you think children should be punished for their parents' sins. That's not personal responsibility, that's family responsibility. Why not punish the city? The county? The water district? Where does it end? Maybe the entire galaxy should be destroyed!

Should you be punished or rewarded for the acts of your great great great grandfather? Should you have to pay reparations to the great great great grandchildren of victims of war crimes committed by your long-deceased ancestors?

How many generations should be punished for the acts of their ancestors?

If we are treated unjustly, ought we to follow same principle and take revenge against the children of the perpetrator? Should the laws be changed to jail or execute the children of criminals? What about nephews and cousins?

Just how would that be "just" or "merciful," Faithful? Or civilized?

Didymus

Faithful

The scripture I quoted was under the old Levitical law. Jesus brought us the new covenant of love.

What we sew we shall reap. I am sure you have heard of cases where two twins are raised by different families but still have shared many similar thought patterns. Also, if a parent is an alcoholic, any children in the future generations are pre-destined to have the same genetic structure. That doesn't mean that every child will become an alcoholic, but the weakness is still there for generations to come.

Many times too, a child will see a parent who is involved in organized crime, or whatever, and the child wants to follow in his father's footsteps. This influence could also pass down to many generations.