Equinox

SNM wrote:
I can see your point. Maybe ask for a concise summary of his beliefs, using whatever labels he prefers to use?

Equinox

Toto

Well put, Equinox. But I think that kcdad could also help by moderating his own sarcasm and defensiveness. He claims that he can use his God given reason to determine which parts of the Bible are true and which are something else. This is the point of this forum - to analyze the Bible and other texts. kcdad can't just claim that his own interpretation is obviously true without giving us some reasons.

kcdad

What do you mean? "Am I a member of one of 30,000 denominations of Churches that claim to follow the teachings of Jesus?" Yes.

"Are my sins forgiven?" Yes.

"Do I love mercy, seek justice and walk humbly with my God?" Yes.

"Do I love God above all else and my neighbor as myself?" Yes.

"Do I do what Jesus commanded?" Yes.

"Have I been baptized, born from above, sanctified and justified"? Yes.

Do I wear a WWJD bracelet, cross or crucifix? No.

kcdad

Open your mind.
I believe Adam was a son of God, and Moses and Jonah, too. Yes, we are all sons of God.

Oh you mean biological offspring??? No. Jesus was not the biological offspring of a spiritual God.
Not at all.

No they wouldn't. They would say it about someone who thought Spirit can "beget" flesh.
Wrong about what? Aztecs were absolutely right about creating a universal calendar. They were right about the sun being the immediate source of life on Earth. Muslims are right about a lot of stuff. Christianity is WRONG about a lot of stuff. There is no ONE TRUE religion. There is only ONE TRUE God.


Brains have not developed AT ALL in 10,000 years. Knowledge and technology (the application of knowledge) have developed in the past 10,000 years. We are different because of what we CAN think about... not our ability to think.
That kind of development goes on in every single human being as they grow up... that is where the physical changes occur... the real changes occur in our ability to apply knowledge and technology to our world.

Because you have closed your mind to understanding... what they used to call "hardening one's heart". See? There is an example... it wasn't their hearts that were hardened... it is was their reasoning. We know that now... 10,000 years ago we didn't know that.

Micah 6:8
It fits with every Jesus taught.

The definition of Prophesy would be another... I read Jonah. Jonah, although he prophesied "WRONGLY" (Nineveh was not destroyed in 40 days) is still considered a prophet by both Jews and Christians. That is why I KNOW that Revelation is not a prediction of the future... prophesy has NOTHING to do with the future. That is also why Jesus WAS a prophet, despite much Christian ignorance which denies this fact. Jesus was more than JUST a prophet, he was teacher, a healer, mystic and Messiah.

show_no_mercy

Arguments against the existence of god aside, how do you know what Jesus taught when you're really just following the words inserted into what's essentially a fictional Jesus character?

For example:

Why wouldn't Philo, who apparently spearheaded this "logos" idea, be interested in the living embodiment of his logos character walking around Galilee?

Why would Jesus be speaking in Greek (the reason for Nicodemus' confusion over the double entendre of "born again/from above")?

Why would Jesus constantly refer to himself as "the Son", always pray to "the Father", and yet when he's about to be executed he just so happens to run into another character called "Jesus son of the father" who is his polar opposite?

I also noticed that you didn't quote John 3:16 - do you not accept the fundamental Christian dogma that the god of the Jews sent his only son as a Paschal Lamb to be sacrificed for the redemption of mankind? Do you not believe in Jesus' burial in a rich man's tomb and subsequent resurrection?

bacht

hey kc

Do you believe in resurrection/afterlife? surely this is the central promise of Christianity?

kcdad

What is true for me obviously isn't true for everyone... There apparently is no single truth that all people can accept. If there were, the world would be a different place.
All that matters is what is true for you... not what is true for your preacher, your parents or your government.
Is it true you can not work on the Sabbath? Why isn't it? Did THAT truth change? Is it true we must sacrifice innocent animals to appease an angry God because of our evilness? Why did that change?
Is it true that shellfish, rabbits and pigs are unclean? If so, why can we eat them? Did that truth change? Tithing... property... the list is humongous... why all these changes? Because of Jesus? (In Christianity that is the same as saying because of God) The answer can not be because of Jesus... because God is unchanging, eternally unchanging. Right?

To analyze the text, you have to accept it for what it is...The Old Testament is a 3000 year old late history of the Hebrew people, written by the people of Judah for the people of Judah. The New Testament specifically is a political document contrived and compiled by the Roman Catholic Church... redacted, edited and given the Papal seal of approval. Many texts were intentionally destroyed and eliminated from history and can not be examined... others were relegated to "other" status and still others labeled as heretical... BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Both Testaments are human products. They are NOT divine products.

kcdad

It is. But it is not of Jesus.
"I have come that they may have life (NOW) and more abundantly."

Resurrection in New Testament terms is metaphoric. Jesus NEVER rose from the dead in an animated physical body. It simply is not to be found in any serious reading of Old Testament and New Testament documents taken in context. For example... John's story of Thomas... "I will not believe until I actually put my hand in his wounds"... and then when Jesus' "physical reanimated corpse" appears in the middle of a room does Thomas put his hands on Jesus? Nope. He immediately falls to knees confessing his belief.
Does Mary touch Jesus? Nope. Jesus eats fish and bread... well that is certainly interesting, but since he is so busy popping in out of places all over Palestine, Emmaus, Sea of Galilee, Jerusalem, Galilee itself... maybe it means something else.
And then of course, there is the ascension... do physical bodies just rise up into the sky and disappear? Of course not. And if they can rise high enough to disappear from sight... where do they go? Jupiter. Or Pluto, the irony would be appropriate, although it sounds a little stupider.

IF JESUS TRULY WAS PHYSICALLY REANIMATED... where is his body today?
Heaven, the Kingdom of God is not a place somewhere out there... remember Jesus himself said... it is within you.

Eternal life, that is unending existence in some form of "self" that is recognizable to anyone including yourself, is the greatest lie perpetrated on the teachings of Jesus by the Greek dualists and Roman Church. Eternity is and always has been NOW. THINK for a minute. When was it when you were 5 years old... think back... what would you have said then? "NOW". When will it be in 40 years as you sit on front porch thinking about where all those "nows" went? Think! It will still be "NOW". It is always "NOW", until you die. The there is no time, no existence, no nothing. THAT is eternal life... the understanding that everything that every was and everything that every will be exists in this moment, in this eternal NOW... THAT is how we are called to live. THAT is the teaching of Jesus.

kcdad

Of course Jesus wouldn't speak in Greek, except to a Greek merchant. He spoke Aramaic.


You are referring to Barrabas? I think the symbolism is important. The metaphor is ironic and powerful. Do you want the King of Jews or The Son of God? And the people shout.. we don't want any King, give us the Son of God.

I don't often quote anything out John.

LOGOS is an interesting word because more than "word" it signifies the same as logo means today... a grander understanding of the thing... its essence...its character... The logo of McDonalds, the golden arches carries within it the "spirit" of McDonalds.

Kasper

Ok that's it. I lost my patience with you. You dodge my questions. You keep on posting irrelevant stuff. You first say our cognitive abilities have changed during the past 10.000 years. I told you they didn't. You provided "evidence". Listed some psychologists and told me they all claimed that we had changed. I showed you that they were not even researching anything remotedly similar. And now you turn this conversation 180 degress and tell me we are fundamentally similar.

Edit: You don't have to reply to this post. I have put you on ignore.