Freethought & Rationalism Archive

show_no_mercy · 04-30-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

Thanks

People can make up crap, but the difference between science and religion (as well as language) is that there's a built in mechanism for self correction. People make up crap all the time, but unless they can allow for the possibility that it's wrong, it will always remain made up crap. That's why there's one science, and thousands of religions. If religion had a methodology that accepted the possibility of being show false (

falsifiability), then it would morph into science.

Language has no need for falsifiabiliy, that doesn't make sense.

You are right.. Religion NEVER changes, never self corrects, never morphs in to something else...
Good God man... do you ever read the gibberish you write?
There are thousands of sciences too, for that matter... or do you believe in the one TRUE SCIENCE?

I don't know why I bother to read the gibberish you write.

Kasper · 04-30-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

You are right.. Religion NEVER changes, never self corrects, never morphs in to something else...
Good God man... do you ever read the gibberish you write?
There are thousands of sciences too, for that matter... or do you believe in the one TRUE SCIENCE?

I don't know why I bother to read the gibberish you write.

The ignore list is a gift from God

Equinox · 04-30-2009, 09:00 AM

Toto wrote:

Quote:

Well put, Equinox. But I think that kcdad could also help by moderating his own sarcasm and defensiveness.

Thanks Toto. Yep. I tried to be impartial in pointing out that those on both sides had been too eager to attack.

Well, after looking over the thread, it seems that it’s gone back to attacks. Oh well, there’s only so much we can do.

Kcdad wrote:

Quote:

Actually,I am quite quiet during those creed readings...
I believe God in the creator of heaven and Earth... then I skip down to the Holy Spirit ... then the fellowship of believers... skip the resurrection of the dead etc...

It always amazes me how many Christians are members of churches that have doctrines they disagree with – and I don’t mean just a couple minor points, but foundational beliefs, like belief in the trinity or in the Bible as the word of God. I see this especially among Catholics in the US, but nearly across the board too.

The most surprising manifestation of that is the giving of money and other support to help the church in question, which then goes on to use those resources to further goals that the original giver would object to otherwise. For instance, I know several liberal Episcopals who give a lot of money to the church, with gives it to the Anglican Communion, which then uses it to set up fundamentalist churches in Africa. Similarly, I know many Catholics who give a slice of their income to the Catholic church, which then uses it to support the “condoms causes AIDS” lies that the Catholic church makes. When this is pointed out, they hem and haw, but still keep sending their money. It boggles the mind.

Kcdad, have you looked into Deism? Maybe you are one of the rising tide of Deists?

Equinox

bacht · 04-30-2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

It is. But it is not of Jesus.
"I have come that they may have life (NOW) and more abundantly."

Resurrection in New Testament terms is metaphoric. Jesus NEVER rose from the dead in an animated physical body. It simply is not to be found in any serious reading of Old Testament and New Testament documents taken in context. For example... John's story of Thomas... "I will not believe until I actually put my hand in his wounds"... and then when Jesus' "physical reanimated corpse" appears in the middle of a room does Thomas put his hands on Jesus? Nope. He immediately falls to knees confessing his belief.
Does Mary touch Jesus? Nope. Jesus eats fish and bread... well that is certainly interesting, but since he is so busy popping in out of places all over Palestine, Emmaus, Sea of Galilee, Jerusalem, Galilee itself... maybe it means something else.
And then of course, there is the ascension... do physical bodies just rise up into the sky and disappear? Of course not. And if they can rise high enough to disappear from sight... where do they go? Jupiter. Or Pluto, the irony would be appropriate, although it sounds a little stupider.

IF JESUS TRULY WAS PHYSICALLY REANIMATED... where is his body today?
Heaven, the Kingdom of God is not a place somewhere out there... remember Jesus himself said... it is within you.

Eternal life, that is unending existence in some form of "self" that is recognizable to anyone including yourself, is the greatest lie perpetrated on the teachings of Jesus by the Greek dualists and Roman Church. Eternity is and always has been NOW. THINK for a minute. When was it when you were 5 years old... think back... what would you have said then? "NOW". When will it be in 40 years as you sit on front porch thinking about where all those "nows" went? Think! It will still be "NOW". It is always "NOW", until you die. The there is no time, no existence, no nothing. THAT is eternal life... the understanding that everything that every was and everything that every will be exists in this moment, in this eternal NOW... THAT is how we are called to live. THAT is the teaching of Jesus.

What you say may be true, but I don't think the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury could agree, at least publicly. The NT seems to mean what it says, that supernatural places and events are real, including resurrection.

Adding a philosophical interpretation is fun but doesn't really reflect the thinking of the church fathers does it? All those religious wars in Europe weren't fought because of philosophy, they were about supernatural issues like sacraments and sainthood and such :huh:

kcdad · 05-01-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

striderlives;
Yeah, those are Hebrew laws - reiterated by the Hebrew named Jesus - who is also God. Jesus says over and over that what God requires is to follow the Hebrew law. It's only others like Paul and John that repudiate what Jesus said.

These two sum up the entire point of the Law...Love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself... The LAW was made for man not man for the Law.

Quote:

So....you reject what the Savior says in favor of some later writer with far less authority, and you call this critical thinking??

To which "what the Savior says" do you refer?

kcdad · 05-01-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

You are right.. Religion NEVER changes, never self corrects, never morphs in to something else...
Good God man... do you ever read the gibberish you write?
There are thousands of sciences too, for that matter... or do you believe in the one TRUE SCIENCE?

I don't know why I bother to read the gibberish you write.

Neither do I know why you bother to read... at all. All you are looking for is what already agrees with is already in your head... so why bother?

kcdad · 05-01-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TehMuffin

Quote:

Originally Posted by show_no_mercy

I don't know why I bother to read the gibberish you write.

The ignore list is a gift from God

Actually, the refusal to entertain contrary thoughts would be a deceitful trick of the Devil... if there were one.

kcdad · 05-01-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equinox

It always amazes me how many Christians are members of churches that have doctrines they disagree with – and I don’t mean just a couple minor points, but foundational beliefs, like belief in the trinity or in the Bible as the word of God. I see this especially among Catholics in the US, but nearly across the board too.

The most surprising manifestation of that is the giving of money and other support to help the church in question, which then goes on to use those resources to further goals that the original giver would object to otherwise. For instance, I know several liberal Episcopals who give a lot of money to the church, with gives it to the Anglican Communion, which then uses it to set up fundamentalist churches in Africa. Similarly, I know many Catholics who give a slice of their income to the Catholic church, which then uses it to support the “condoms causes AIDS” lies that the Catholic church makes. When this is pointed out, they hem and haw, but still keep sending their money. It boggles the mind.

Kcdad, have you looked into Deism? Maybe you are one of the rising tide of Deists?

Equinox

Does it really amaze you? Would it surprise you to know that the VAST majority of people attend a church because of the PEOPLE there, not the theology. Studies have shown that people conform their beliefs to the church they choose to attend, rather than attend a church that reflects their beliefs. Heck, until the Vatican 2 resolutions that allowed masses to be given in native languages, hardly anyone knew what was going on in church... let alone in Protestant churches what with tongues and other nonsensical trappings...

People still go to church for the FELLOWSHIP. Their neighbors and friends gather once a week to visit... THAT is the purpose of the Assembly. To share in their lives... not to listen to some $25 mail in preacher license tell them how to think and believe.

kcdad · 05-01-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

What you say may be true, but I don't think the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury could agree, at least publicly. The NT seems to mean what it says, that supernatural places and events are real, including resurrection.

Adding a philosophical interpretation is fun but doesn't really reflect the thinking of the church fathers does it? All those religious wars in Europe weren't fought because of philosophy, they were about supernatural issues like sacraments and sainthood and such :huh:

They were fought over political power and money... like ALL wars are. Those who control societal information can redefine the goals any way they want... when the laity know nothing of the scriptures, doctrines or creeds other than what they are told... they do what they are told.

Toto · 05-01-2009, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdad

...
People still go to church for the FELLOWSHIP. Their neighbors and friends gather once a week to visit... THAT is the purpose of the Assembly. To share in their lives... not to listen to some $25 mail in preacher license tell them how to think and believe.

This is the point that atheists usually make when True Christians talk about how America is a religious or a Christian nation. I'm not sure how it helps your argument here.

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