Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Thomas II · 09-24-2005, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Broussard

Clearly, the god of the early Israelites was nothing more than a local god. Just as with all their neighbors, the Israelites felt that their god was watching out for them and helped them in battle against their enemies.

There really isn't much difference between the early biblical references to their god and the gods of the Illiad. They take sides, punish the disloyal and reward those who obey them.

It's only later that the local god becomes more and more what theists speak of today--omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, all-good, all-knowing and on and on. Reconciling the current god with the early biblical god is one of the toughest jobs imaginable. That's why Christian theists have to twist bible verses into corkscrews to make those two god figures the same.

My thoughts exactly...A local tribal god from Mount Horeb...

Jagella · 09-24-2005, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewtonPooton

jagella, in response to my earlier post, you didn't pick up on any of the sarcasm. At least that's what it appears to be. I didn't really mean any of that about god vs. satan and the bet. I don't believe in either of them and I think somebody made up that story about Job. They wanted to make a point or tell a story...

Anywho... just a lot of sarcasm earlier...

I realized you were being sarcastic. My reply to you was sarcastic as well. Maybe you missed my sarcasm.

Jagella

spin · 09-24-2005, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojuice5001

And the early Christians and their Jewish contemporaries had both settled on saying that creation ex nihilo was true.

The Jews didn't believe in creatio ex nihilo. Such a thought comes from a misunderstanding of Genesis 1.

spin

Loomis · 09-24-2005, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Broussard

Clearly, the god of the early Israelites was nothing more than a local god. Just as with all their neighbors, the Israelites felt that their god was watching out for them and helped them in battle against their enemies.

If you aren't aware of this, read 1 Kings 11. Chemosh was the national elohim of the Moabites, Milcom was the national elohim of the Ammonites, and Yahweh was the national elohim of the Israelites.

Deuteronomy 32:8-9 tells the story of how they were assigned to watch over their respective nations. They were siblings; they inherited their power from a bigger god (their dad) named El.

But I think we should stop assuming that the OT presents a unified view on these issues.

I am convinced that Yahweh and El were two discreet gods. Spin mentioned a theory that says El was the original god of the Israelites, and that Yahweh eventually replaced him (and absorbed Baal – who was also gaining popularity over El). That makes sense to me. But another possibility is that the “early Israelites�? worshipped El exclusively, and that Yahwists were a small minority who ended up having a BIG influence on the bible we have today.

In a nutshell, the god of the early Israelites was two different “gods.�? And perhaps the early Israelites were even two different “early Israelites.�?

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