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Old 02-15-2012, 07:46 PM   #41
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For thousands of years the Jewish tradition has been unwavering about the Exodus, and not a single Jewish scholar from Yemen to Lithuania to Spain and Persia has ever denied it during all that time. But this is not called empirical evidence. Faith remains a central factor, and even secularists have empirically unverifiable faith that their discoveries are the final arbiter.
Even faith is required to accept Galileo's view of the sun as the center of the solar system since no one can travel far enough to empirically observe the relationship of the planetary bodies to each other.
And that faith is fine. When you travel in an airplane you do so in the final analysis on faith that the pilot will get you to your destination.
'Faith remains a central factor, and even secularists have empirically unverifiable faith that their discoveries are the final arbiter...'

I ooubt you would fiund any professioinal secular archeologist who would claim to be such an authority.

We do find Christian 'scholars' who take liberal literary license to make claims based on archeological finds.

I can accept and even respect your faith. But you can not reinfirce your faith by claiming a lack of evidence leading to a logical conclusion is also a faith with no foundation.

The problem is by your reasononing you must also allow the possibility other traditions may be valid.

The irony in your approach is that it is all three Abrahamic traditions who claim to be the truth.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:18 PM   #42
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I would think if one has faith, then there should be no propblem saying simply I know there is no evidence, but I believe.

No emotional crutches, no debassing science which finds no evidence.

When I rea the geneology in Genesis generational timnespans were npt exactly the same, but there were paterns. To me it was clear the writer had an ide oft he names of people and was inventing the durations like lifespan, marriages, and births.

Why on Earth would anyone be surprised at differnces? If there is no evidence for the event, how can any one date be better than another?

If any ethic group were in captivity or residence in Egypt for 400 years, I'd expect there to be a record somewhere.

Some Egyptin aristocrats would have married or had some experince with Jews. Visitors/traders to Egypt would have known of Jews.

There would have been some mention of reiigious friction in Egyptian history over a period of centuries.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:31 PM   #43
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Because I have gone through many of the verses in the Samaritan Torah that differ from the Masoretic Torah and found that many of the Samaritan differences are found in those targums.

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Samaritan sources often relied on midrashic sources.
This is so stupid it reaches a new milestone even for you. The Samaritans have their own targum. Why do you insist on saying idiotic things about topics you have no expertise?
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:48 PM   #44
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whatever
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:37 PM   #45
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[
The bible as metaphor for the anciernt Jews. We have no way of knowing if the all the writings were intnded to be literal.

Job was probably written as metaphor for Jews in captivity.
I never read Job, but if that Joseph from Matthew was from Egypt and only pretended to be from Nazareth, clearly: "out of Egypt I have called my son" but "he shall be called a Nazorean" it sounds to me that there was Billy Graham style revival in Nazareth that got the best of him there.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:45 PM   #46
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The number four hundred is clearly connected with the tau (= x) which liberates the people.
The 3 lines that make up the number 4 are the 'lesser gods' known as 'power, wealth and beauty.' Number 5 is the inversion of faith, and 3 is half-way-full-circle in both-minds and so kind of like a lost-loser in search of destiny but will enjoy a strawberry along the way the way home.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:49 PM   #47
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The bible as metaphor for the anciernt Jews. We have no way of knowing if the all the writings were intnded to be literal.

Job was probably written as metaphor for Jews in captivity.
I never read Job, but if that Joseph from Matthew was from Egypt and only pretended to be from Nazareth, clearly: "out of Egypt I have called my son" but "he shall be called a Nazorean" it sounds to me that there was Billy Graham style revival in Nazareth that got the best of him there.
I was speaking about the OT. What got passed down as the Jewish OT was probably a fraction of what existed BCE . My Oxford bible commentray says Job was probably part of a larger lost set of wisdom/teaching materials.

As I understand it the JC of the NT would have been recognizable as a Jewish chrasmatic. In general form he would not have been unique.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:51 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Duvduv View Post
For thousands of years the Jewish tradition has been unwavering about the Exodus, and not a single Jewish scholar from Yemen to Lithuania to Spain and Persia has ever denied it during all that time. But this is not called empirical evidence. Faith remains a central factor, and even secularists have empirically unverifiable faith that their discoveries are the final arbiter.
Even faith is required to accept Galileo's view of the sun as the center of the solar system since no one can travel far enough to empirically observe the relationship of the planetary bodies to each other.
And that faith is fine. When you travel in an airplane you do so in the final analysis on faith that the pilot will get you to your destination.
They were not materialists, obviously, and knew that already then that the sun was the centre from a human point of view.

The reason why the world is 'said to be flat' is because it was created in the singular and the planet earth that already was in Gen 1, and the heavens were created in the plural and therefore was not a blank slate at birth.
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:31 PM   #49
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That's fine if you want to accept the word of archeologists who are neither omnipotent nor omniscient and who are constrained by the laws of time and space.
Not a problem. Find me someone who is omnipotent, omniscient, and unconstrained by time or space, and I'll accept their word for whatever they say.
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Old 02-15-2012, 11:35 PM   #50
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And that faith is fine. When you travel in an airplane you do so in the final analysis on faith that the pilot will get you to your destination.
You can stick the "faith" label on that reasoned expectation if you wish, but unless you're doing apologetics, I don't see the point.
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