FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-15-2012, 11:04 AM   #1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 1,037
Default How long were the Israelites in Egypt?

Does anyone have a solution to the Egyptian-sojourn problem? The discrepancy is that Exodus 12:40-41 says that the Israelites lived in Egypt for 430 years, yet this statement is inconsistent with other passages, including the genealogies found in Exodus 6:16-20, Numbers 3:17-20, and 1 Chronicles 6:1-3, which show that only four generations passed during the Egyptian sojourn.
John Kesler is offline  
Old 02-15-2012, 11:46 AM   #2
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

They were never in Egypt as a class. The Exodus is fiction; Israelites evolved out of the Canaanites who lived in the area. 430 is undoubtedly a symbolic number.
Toto is offline  
Old 02-15-2012, 11:52 AM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 1,037
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
They were never in Egypt as a class. The Exodus is fiction; Israelites evolved out of the Canaanites who lived in the area. 430 is undoubtedly a symbolic number.
I'm aware of this hypothesis. My question is whether anyone thinks there is a resolution to the internal biblical contradiction.
John Kesler is offline  
Old 02-15-2012, 11:53 AM   #4
Moderator -
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posts: 4,639
Default

The historical answer is that they were never in Egypt at all.

Apologetic attempts to resolve the contradiction vary.

Here is AIG on the question. Not a very convincing answer. One might even say it sounds strained and desperate.
Diogenes the Cynic is offline  
Old 02-15-2012, 11:55 AM   #5
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 1,037
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
The historical answer is that they were never in Egypt at all.

Apologetic attempts to resolve the contradiction vary.

Here is AIG on the question. Not a very convincing answer. One might even say it sounds strained and desperate.
I have never seen an answer that wasn't strained, but I'm curious if anyone has.
John Kesler is offline  
Old 02-15-2012, 12:17 PM   #6
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3,619
Default

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amznbi0lFaU
On my way

mod note: clip from Elmer Gantry, hymn "On My Way to Canaan's Land"
Iskander is offline  
Old 02-15-2012, 12:27 PM   #7
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3,619
Default

Apologies.
Iskander is offline  
Old 02-15-2012, 12:39 PM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4,095
Default

As in all other matters of this kind, Toto, what you have argued about the fictional nature of the story is only a working hypothesis that cannot be empirically demonstrated or argued unequivocally.

Aside from the stated number of 400 years as found in Genesis 15 when God makes the covenant with Abraham, which included the promises that the Israelites would be strangers in another land, and was to be counted from the birth of Isaac, as discussed by Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki (Rashi) in his commentary to Exodus 6:18.

A verse in Exodus counts a total of 430 years (Ex. 12:40). MAimonides explained that due to the sins of the Israelites the original decree was extended by 30 years.

Rashi on Exodus 12 comments that the 430 was calculated from the time of the Covenant, and 400 from the birth of Isaac.

He explains that the decree of exile in Egypt started from the year when Jacob and his family of 70 settled in Egypt. This reduction of 180 years was caused because the Exile involved harsh treatment by the Egyptians.

As an interesting aside, the gematria of the word "R'du" meaning "Go Down" is 210. This word is used by Jacob when telling his sons to go down to Egypt to obtain food.

The time of actual enslavement was only 116 of the 210 years residing in Egypt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
They were never in Egypt as a class. The Exodus is fiction; Israelites evolved out of the Canaanites who lived in the area. 430 is undoubtedly a symbolic number.
Duvduv is offline  
Old 02-15-2012, 01:35 PM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 4,876
Default

According to the Septuagint of Exodus 12:40-41 the 430 years include both the time in Egypt and the time spent by the Patriarchs (Abraham Isaac and Jacob) in Canaan. Taking the time spent in Canaan as 215 years the time spent in Egypt is also 215 years.

Andrew Criddle
andrewcriddle is offline  
Old 02-15-2012, 01:48 PM   #10
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bli Bli
Posts: 3,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewcriddle View Post
According to the Septuagint of Exodus 12:40-41 the 430 years include both the time in Egypt and the time spent by the Patriarchs (Abraham Isaac and Jacob) in Canaan. Taking the time spent in Canaan as 215 years the time spent in Egypt is also 215 years.

Andrew Criddle
Thats the approach adopted here
judge is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:19 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.