bacht

It's a nice summary of the apologist position, but the texts themselves are full of problems. That's one reason why the Vatican had to impose a coherent interpretation on the material; reading it straight is too confusing.

Since Luther Christians have been encouraged to read the Bible for themselves, in translations. Now we have multiple interpretations, many based on modern vernacular texts rather than the "original" Hebrew and Greek.

But those who prefer a supernatural approach don't really care about the technical issues anyway. In that sense they are like their Catholic predecessors: inspiration and faith are more important than logic and inquiry.

Chili

The Vatican put it together and they know exactly what is in there and actually put a form of censorship on to prevent people from going to hell (in case you wonder, Catholics cannot go to hell as catholic). . . . and 20,000 denominations. In Port Royal logic all techincal issues can come together but that too was abandonned when Chritians emerged with power and autority.

Let me add here that my synopsis explains why both Matthew and Mark have Jesus say: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me." Short answer: Jesus is going back to Galilee to suffer some more untill he dies his second death = hell on earth.

Luke says: "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit and to heaven he went. These words are echoed by James Joyce on the last page of his "Portrait" with: " Old father, Old artificer, stand me now and ever in good stead." After this Joyce went absent for 3 days to emerge again on May 1 when all new life begins.

And then or course John shows us the Final form with "It is finished" and started the built his new Church soon after that.

Transient

Where do you get all this wierd stuff mate?
You from some alternative reality or something?

Chili

Hi and welcome, not weird at all, just being controversial for fun.

Chili

Oh, and BTW, Joyce was a Catholic who left Ireland soon after that no longer a young man.

bacht

One of the reasons why the bible is still worth studying is because of its influence in Western art for fifteen hundred years. I don't believe in angels or miracles, but I can admire Michaelangelo's Last Judgment or Leonardo's Last Supper at different levels if I understand the background stories.

Chili

Good point because artistic expression is the measure of well being in each and every mythology (and don't forget Joyces "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man").

I like the story presented in all art forms wherein the art of art works is concealed.

bacht

Well, the Bible itself can be seen as a cultural artifact, a collection of stories and poems describing Iron Age life throught the eyes of writers. The Jews had no representational art to speak of, so their artistic impulses were channelled mainly into their literature. Their architecture and music are mostly lost to us.

Chili

Sorry moderator but I call it fun to make it easy for people to ignore me. Besides, would it help me any of I told them to believe me? No, so I just write what I write and let the reader make up his own mind.

Chili

Correct . . . and is why the measure of truth is found in the beauty of artistic expression, which then tells us someting about the prosperity of the tribe. I greatly admire Judaism for their literary complexity but I am not able to fully rationalize their metaphor because I am not a Jew.