judge

No it is just extremely difficult for you to imagine, that's all.

judge

Many have commented on the fact that the greek of Mark appears to be a translation from Hebrew or Aramaic.

That you find this unthinkable doesn't change the fact that scholars do not.

Pilate

Quit those derogatory comments and lets get to work. Work on the issue.
So far you brought one piece of evidence (Josephus)
Even this one piece has a potential flaw :huh: (the flaw may be in the translation of the word Hebrew). You , yea, You ... have to produce the Greek text if you want to convince us. Bring your evidence to the podium and don't sent everyone on a wild goose chase.
Good for him (if it was really Hebrew). So did other educated people. They spoke Hebrew. Jesus, too. But we are talking about the common language of the people of Palestine.
I don't claim to be an expert. No one has to take my word. I just bring evidence to the forum and let everyone see it and analyze it:
Here is more evidence:
The NIV says the language of Palestine was ARAMAIC (... you will have to write a letter to correct them, and tell them what kind of ignoramuses :Cheeky: they are! .)
“Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).� (John 20:16 NIV)
NIV footnote: “rabboni�: there are a few if any examples of this word in Judaism.
“Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek.� (John 19:20 NIV)
“So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha).� (John 19:17 NIV)
NIV footnote: Aramaic. One of the languages of the Jewish people at that time (along with Hebrew). Golgotha: Aramaic for ‘the skull.�
However, Thayer’s says Chaldee

“When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge's seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha).� (John 19:13 NIV)
Gabbatha: Thayer’s says Chaldee.
What is Chaldee?
Here is the darn ANCHOR BIBLE DICTIONARY again:
Late Babylonian (615 b.c.–1st century a.d.). This is the language of the Chaldean, Persian, and Seleucid-Arsacid periods. It is even more strongly influenced by Aramaic and is found in royal inscriptions, letters, and economic documents.
Freedman, D. N. (1996, c1992). The Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York: Doubleday.
Encyclopedia Encarta:
Chaldee : Chal•dee [ káldee, kal d ] (plural Chal•dees)
noun Definitions: 1. Aramaic: the Aramaic language

Chaldean language (today): a dialect of the modern Aramaic language, spoken in Iraq and by communities now settled in the United States.
Encarta.
Spin,
you have to take this case with the encyclopedias. Don't attack the messenger because you don't like the message! Write a letter to the NIV and send your derogatory :angry: statements to them!

Toto

Wait a minute.

John 19:17, 20 from Young's literal translation

The KJV also has Hebrew. Where does the NIV get Aramaic?

I have no particular attachment to this issue. We always read that Jesus spoke Aramaic. Where did this idea come from?

Pilate

Can you explain why you wrote this? I don't understand.
Toto,
if you guys want I can make the case FOR the existence of Jesus.
I can start a new threat or continue an old one. Give me the argument against the existence of Jesus and let me work with them. There is too much irrelevant stuff posted on the forums, which I don't have the time to sift through. If I start on the case and I need to address a point that was written long ago, and if someone knows that point,
I would like them to send the point to me or post it so I can see it, right where I make the case. It is best if a debate is posted in one place, so that a reader does not have to retrieve it from different places.

Pilate

Here is the link. See it for yourselves, it says Aramaic:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...7;&version=31;
Caution: The word "Hebrew" {Greek: Evraeedee or Evraeestee) may mean Aramaic. I have seen this explained before.
Remember, People, especially foreingner, may have named the language of the Jews after their nationality( Evraeos // Evraisti). For example. Someone who is not familiar with Spanish, might hear some Mexicans speaking and say that the Mexicans speak Mexican. Or, the Jews are speaking Jewish. And if these names stick, then others use them.

Toto

The NIV says Aramaic. Other translations say Hebrew. What does the original Greek say?

You can see it here by clicking on the c above the verse"

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_d...1-7375.html#17

and it looks like "ebraisti" - which I assume is Hebrew, not Aramaic.

Why does the NIV translate hebraisti as Aramaic?

(after I wrote this I saw that you added a claim that "ebraisti" can mean Aramaic. I don't know what to do about that.)

Toto

We spent a long time debating the existence of Jesus a few years ago. If you think you can make the case for the existence of Jesus, please do so.

But first of all read Earl Doherty's book The Jesus Puzzle or at least read his website www.jesuspuzzle.com

and also this review: Did Jesus Exist

Pilate

I answered this in the previous posting. The ones who would know best what they spoke would be the Jews themselves. I have read a few books by Jewish scholars, I did not run into anyone saying that the common language in Palestine was Hebrew.
The scholars of NIV are aware of the KJV rendering "Hebrew." (I read about this in the NIV but I can remember this moment.)
Another reason for the misnomer might be:
1. The language of the New Testament is lacking in diction (and syntax).
2. the people who wrote Evraeestee or Evraeedee (Paul was not one of them) were probably not Jews. This is my speculation.

Toto

Well, spin is a Jewish scholar, I think. (He will correct me if I am wrong.)

Could someone explain why we are having this argument? What is the import of whether Jesus or John spoke Aramaic or Hebrew or some other language? Why is this such a contentious point?