NOGO

Continuing my look at differences between the Epitles and the Gospels/Acts

In Acts speakng in tongues is described as a miraculous instantaneous simultaneous translation into the language of the listener. The UN can certainly use such a gift.

Acts 2:6-8
And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of
them was hearing them speak in his own language. They were amazed and astonished, saying,
"Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans?
"And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born?

This occurred when believers received the holy spirit which Jesus promised them would help them know what to say.

Paul on the other hand has a very different notion of the idea of speaking in tongues.

1 Cor 14
2 For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands,
but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

So this gift according to Paul is not meant to help believers speak to other people. It is for believers to speak to God and not to men. Why? Because "no one understands"
We are indeed millions of miles from Acts 2:6-8

Verse 5
Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and
greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that
the church may receive edifying.

Verse 16
Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the ungifted
say the "Amen" at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying?

Paul calls for translation or interpretation the very thing which Acts claims to do. People are filled with the holy spirit to speak great mysteries but nobody understands including the person speaking.


Verse 27,28
If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

In other words if there is no interpreter then shut up.

How did we go from
Everybody understands in his native language
to
Nobody understands ???


How did this idea of speaking in tongue arise?
Anybody have an idea?

Is this a case of embarrassment where the original idea reflected in Paul's letters was just too silly?

redzrx

I've been to a church(friend is a member and wanted me to go).. where the speaking in tongues was considered a norm.

I't so plain thats it jibberish. Someone would spew some non coherent words(I use that loosely) and a few secs later someone would translate.. usally includes jesus or lord save us and such.

I looked around to see if I was on a hidden camera.. but.. I tell ya .. you gotta see it to believe it. These people believe it! They claim it is another Language! Their f**ked.

Mario

Rymmie1981

Being a tongue-talker for quite some time, I can say that we were always taught that if we came upon a tribe on an island somewhere, the Holy Spirit would come upon us and we would be speaking in the tribe's language about Jesus. They always took the Acts2 event as saying that the apostles were speaking in the languages of all the people from all over the world who had come to Jerusalem for the Passover. This, in corrolation with 1Cor(13 or 14?), where Paul says, If I speak with tongues of angels and have not love, yada, yada, yada, says that speaking in tongues means you are speaking in some language that someone, or something, else can understand, even if it's only God.

But, it's mostly just jibberish. I never understood how the same 10 syllable pattern repeated over and over could turn into a translation about the evils of sex and drugs and God is good and we're going to the next level as a church(I guess we killed enough demons, I hope we get the smiting blow feat ) and so on. Benny Hinn crusades are fun to watch. They usually have a lot of tongues and the occasional translation.

NOGO

Acts 2 does not say that the apostles spoke foreign languages.
It says that each understood in his own language.

The focus is not on the speaker. The focus is on the listener.

The mracle is not that apostles all of a sudden spoke all the languages of the world. The miracle is that everybody understood at the same time.

Rymmie1981

I realize that, NOGO, but you should try convincing the pastors I grew up listening to. I wasn't trying to give that as my point of view, since my point of view has changed considerably since I last "spoke in tongues". It was just the point of view that brought up to believe.

Paradox

I used to "speak in tongues" every day hoping that the words I used were somehow "spiritual" and would bring some form of revelation to me inwardly as I read the Bible. I guess it worked because I now realise what a load of old %^&* it is.

Even as a Christian I used to be so embarrassed by a guy at the church who would always be spilling out the same heart felt message...
"shadada shadada shadada shadada...." you get the picture. Different interpretation every week of course (that's how they get around it. Its not a translation but an "interpretation")

On the subject of languages I recently realised that one of the most ludicrous leaps Christians have had to make from the rational to the ridiculous is the story of the Tower of Babel. Forget the Garden of Eden and Noah's ark. They actually believe that a group of people were suddenly struck down one day whilst building a big zigurat and amazingly they all spoke the different languages of the world. I actually took that literally whilst I was a Christian!!

NOGO

Sorry.

Actually I realized that this was not your opinion. I was responding to the intepretation which you quoted. I will be more careful in the future.

Rymmie1981

No problem. I was probably a little sippy in my post. I haven't been having the best day and it comes out in my communication. I will attempt to be more civil myself. But, in the end, it's all in the wording when being nice or mean. And so I will part with the following, "Shadala. Mememecococo, yomene taska sheh neco. Hooooooooo, LORD, nis makhan daleh meson."

I hope you take it the spirit that it is given.

Kryten

I hope this post is not considered too flippant, but my aunty Betty used to speak in tongues. She now resides in a mental home.
Poor woman.

Atticus_Finch

If you look at the description of speaking in tongues in Acts 10 and Acts 19 they are not inconsistent with the passages quoted from Paul.

I think most Christians would say that the experience of the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out for the first time and the church as we know it was born, was exceptional and not to be considered a norm.

Regards,

Finch