Malachi151

We're often told that in the Hebrew scriptures there were several different names used for God, YHWH, El, and various other titles.

However, I have yet to see a a text that uses these different titles in line and shows exactly how they were used.

Since I don't know Hebrew I don't really know if these names were used in the early Hebrew texts that we have record of, or what.

When exactly did YHWH become "God", "the Lord", etc?

If you read the Dead Sea Scrolls, does it say YHWH and El all throughout? Are there examples of where these names are used in line?

I've just never been clear on this whole business, so if anyone can clear that up....

andrewcriddle

Some translations use
LORD (and sometimes GOD) for YHWH
God for Elohim and El
Lord for Adonai

Andrew Criddle

vid

AFAIK: The oldest texts we have, partially reconstructed by documentary hypothesis, were somehow consistent in usage and that could something. Also we have description of El in Ugaritic texts, and some archaeological finds with "yah" god.

Authors of texts since Genesis probably had no idea themselves about original meanings, and those were simply formulas used to refer to gods.

http://www.bibletexts.com/glossary/names-of-god-ot.htm

To me , it appears that this is something where many different cults and religions were fused together, similar to when christianity became big in rome. BTW, that is also what "Excavating Bible" video claimed, and put forth some political/military reasons for this big fusion.

Clivedurdle

Don't forget that Persian god - who is it? Most High!

The Hebrew Bible and Christian Bible are amalgams of tales about various gods. There is a real problem that translators have assumed it is the same god throughout - but that is an assumption from theological considerations. Similar effects happen with sophia and holy spirit and spirit of god. And it may originally have been an awesome sound like om...

http://www.britanicca.com/EBchecked/topic/651183/Yahweh

mg01

Malachi, I may have what you are after. I have a Hebrew Bible Excel file I put together with parallel hebrew/english translations with all the occurances of YHWH, Elohim, El, Adoinai, El Shadday, El Eloyn,
Eloah, and others highlighted. It also has the JEPD sources identified per Friedman, doublets/triplets, and other marginal notes added from Finkelstien, Dever, Redmond, and others.

The zip file also has the same text split out with each source side by side, as well as a file with the gopspels side by side.

I'm on the road and can't give you the link, but if you hit my profile and look for posts started by me you should find where I posted it a couple months ago.

One thing to note is you'll find Elohim used in reference to deities other than YHWH which end up in english something like "other gods". The file will have "other Elohim" with a note off to the side that it was "gods" not "God" in English.

I also undid translations of other terms such as angel/messenger, heaven/sky, and several others that appear the same in Hebrew but translated differently in English depending on the context and the whim of the translator.

mg01

"Most High" or "On High" is also found as an apellation for various deties in sumerian, bablyonian, and canaanite/ugarit religious inscriptions/writings.

XKV8R

a good book on the subject is mark s. smith's 'the early history of god (or via: amazon.co.uk)'

Cesc

This is the thread, but unfortunately the link is dead.
If you could reupload it sometime in the future it would be awesome!

XKV8R

god has lots of names in the hebrew bible, and many of them are derivations and adaptations of canaanite gods and their names. but it wasn't just the 'translators' that amalgamated the names (although 'god' and 'spirit of god' certainly were two different names for the same being that became two quasi-separate beings in the 2nd temple period, and hence the trinitarian mess). the names were merged as the bibllical traditions were being written down. 'el elyon' from melchizedek was originally another local deity over jerusalem, but the name simply became another name for yhwh, as did el, and all of the other play on word names that the hebrew god has.

the biblical writers incorporated different traditions, which must have been pretty well established. otherwise, if the exilic scribes/priests were 'inventing' a religion (some of which they did) they would have caught the yhwh vs. elohim differences in gen 1 and 2.

anywho, the different modern translations attempt to connote the preserved hebrew, hence the word 'the lord' in small caps for 'yhwh,' 'lord' for 'adonay,' and 'god' for 'elohim.'

John Kesler

Try here.