Bilbato

I recently have had an interesting train of thought and I wish to try writing an essay of it. As I know little about specific locations of the texts, could anyone provide me with the Book, chapter, and verse in the Bible that talks about Jesus either healing the sick, divining knowledge, or controlling nature?

For those curious to know, the paper will end up trying to prove that Jesus was nothing more then a Shaman. :Cheeky: So I am going to have much fun with this, and below is my thesis so far. Thank you!!!!

I have often wondered, what is a shaman, and so I looked it up in a dictionary. There I found the definition as being a person “who acts as a medium between the visible world and an invisible spirit world and who practices magic or sorcery for purposes of healing, divination, and control over natural events.� According to the texts of the Christian Church, Jesus was the son of God who healed the sick, divined knowledge of people before meeting them, and even brought nature into his very will and controlled it. Thus, the man that Christians hold high is nothing more then a Shaman by this very definition. Using the Bible itself and the text there in, Jesus will be shown as the Shaman he was and not “The Son of God� as so often claimed.

Vorkosigan

Bii,

My Mark website has topical map that can take you to pertinent parts of the Gospel of Mark. Scroll down to the entry for "Miracles of Jesus" and click on what you want. Divisions by classification are not helpful. For example, when Jesus controls the water and stills the storm, he may not be not carrying out a "nature miracle" but exorcising a demon, since the language used is that of exorcism.

Vorkosigan

Bilbato

Thank you. I am sure that will be of much help. And though they may call it exorcising, many shamans do perform such things to people they believed are possessed. Or maybe I am just misinterpreting your words? And who knows how this entire essay thing will turn out. Not like it will be graded though. :Cheeky:

Amaleq13

Don't forget the "trial by ordeal" that is typical of stories about becoming a shaman. Jesus' 40 day fast in the desert followed by an appearance of Satan to tempt him fits the mold perfectly. Many shaman stories also feature a return from death so the resurrected Jesus could be understood as a SuperShaman.

Bilbato

Funny how a friend of mine was saying that I was being inappropriate in claiming Jesus as nothing more then a Shaman. My response was that is wasmore ridiculos and inappropriate to claim him as the son of "God." He seemed to be getting mad a lot about it. But oh well. he is a cool guy and if not for him, i would have never knew about IIDB. To bad he is just a lurker and has yet to post anything, to my knowledge.

And I never knew that Shamans had a "trial by ordeal" as you called it. I assume that is just something that once through, if you survive, means that you are meant to be a Shaman and have the right to claim yourself as one?

Amaleq13

I took a class from an instructor who is a Greek Orthodox priest and he readily acknowledged that the story of Jesus fits quite easily with stories of shamans. We were specifically discusssing American Indian and Alaskan Native traditions but I'm pretty sure it is true of any culture with a shamanistic tradition.

There is usually some sort of traumatic experience, often including a return from death, that fundamentally changes the perspective of the individual as well as granting supernatural powers.

Bilbato

So at what point would Jesus' trial by ordeal have been? Would it be his crucifixion? To that I would say no, because he is reported to have performed supernatural acts before this.

So then would it be his 40 day long fast in the desert? And if it often has some association with a return from death, would that mean then that Jesus actually died twice? Once in the desert and once upon the cross? Or do not all trials involve a return from death?

And I find it fascinating that I am not the only one who has had this train of thought. It makes me feel less ridiculous and stupid.

Toto

I don't think that you should say that Jesus was "just" a shaman, as if shamans were nothing.

Google will tell you that a lot of people have had this idea before, in particular Stevan L. Davies Jesus the Healer: Possession, Trance, and the Origins of Christianity

There is also this:

Jesus and Paul as shamans

Bilbato

Sorry, I did not mean to sound disrespecful as I greatly admire shamans and what they do, especially in this day and age. And I find it fascinating many of the alternative healing styles that are slowly being released and that are proving to be very effective methods that shaman have been practicing for millennia and we are only now saying, "hey, these people are really on to something here."

andrewcriddle

If one is interested in Shamanism could I recommend Shamans: Siberian Spirituality and Western Imagination by Ronald Hutton ?

It has an interesting discussion on the problems of using Shamanism as a category which includes many different spiritual phenomena in many different cultures.

Andrew Criddle