Loomis

Pervy,

El and Asherah had 70 sons. They also had a daughter named Anat.

Anat was Yahweh’s sister. The Jews on the island of Elephantine worshiped her at the Temple of Yahweh around 600 BC.

Enjoy these clips from the Ugaritic texts of Ras Shamra. They were written around 1200 BCE by ancient Hebrews.


Anat says to El:

your decree, El, is wise;
your wisdom is forever;
A life of good fortune is your decree.

Asherah says to El:

You are great, El,
indeed you are wise,
the grey hair of your beard indeed instructs you.


Zerubabble will probably argue that this is another “El.�

Well … what ever happened to that “other� El?

Where did that El go?

How come there aren’t any polemics against that “evil� El in the Bible?

What ever became of those ancient Hebrews who believed in El, Asherah, and Anat?

Loomis

No. You have undertaken a biased agenda to distort the sense of the text to serve your own ignorance and misconceptions.

Sure, Psalm 8:5 says Yahweh created the elohim, but Psalm 82:6 still says that the elohim were the sons of El. And Psalm 29:1, Deut 32:7-9, and Psalm 89:6, still say that Yahweh was El’s son.

Now what do we do?

Here’s a thought:

Abandon your misconception that the diverse writings of the Bible are systematically related to one another.

Entertain the possibility that there are no gods, and that the authors of the Bible did not share a common view of who or what God was.

If you want to play fair and avoid looking superstitious, then provide a decent honest reason to conclude that the “El� in Genesis 33:20 is not the same “El� who dated Asherah.

And for the sincere love of G_d, please provide renderings of Psalm 29:1, Deut 32:7-9, and Psalm 89:6, that are more convincing than the rendering that says Yahweh was El’s son.

:wave:

Sheshbazzar

Hello again Loomis,
You are tossing around a plethora of inaccurate "quotations" that are not found in nor supported by any "version" of the Scriptures of which I am aware, Please provide us all with the name of the 'Bible' you are using so we can all obtain a copy.

Will it injure you to be honest with translating even a single verse?

In as much as my post was in reply to your perversion of Psalm 29:1,
Be honest with the readers of this Forum, who are not all experts on the Hebrew language as you are, announce to us all now what the first letter in this contested verse is, and how the first word is spelled, is pronounced, and its interpretation.

I did not, and will not, discuss any further verses with you until and unless you come clean in your treatment of this one,(Psalm 29:1) that YOU brought up, and that YOU mis-transliterated, and that YOU mistranslated. (Posts #11 & 12 in this thread)

Loomis

My dearest Zerubabble,

I have already done that from the get-go. You said so yourself. My source is the Strong’s Concordance found here:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_d...33-4453.html#1

It reads yahab y@hovah ben el.

“Acknowledge Yahweh, the son of El.�

If revealing source has merit then I’m looking good because you haven’t produced yours. Please provide us all with the name of the 'Bible' you are using so we can all obtain a copy.

Further, in an earlier post you assured us that you were at least familiar with the arguments supporting Yahweh as a son of El.

Now you are saying that this is news to you and that you won’t proceed until I account for every letter in the Hebrew alphabet.

Well … if that’s what it takes then I’ll concede, but it doesn’t make you any less disingenuous.

You are asking us to believe that it is a mistranslation simply because you say so?

That’s dumb. Who’s gonna do that?

I provided my source. You told Pervy that there is no actual Scriptural ground for my “so called translation.� But there is plenty. Deuteronomy 32:7-9 is the poster child.

Now that I have come clean please show us YOUR Bible and tell us why studying one Bible in particular is better than studying several Bibles.

Like I said before, I would love to hear your take on Psalm 29:1 (it appears to be an epic originally attributed to Baal), and Deut 32 (it portrays Yahweh as a son of El).

It seems to me that if you understood this stuff you would be eager to slaughter everything that I post.

What about the stuff I said about El, Ashera, Anat, and the 70 sons?

No comment?

Instead, you are backing down. Are you sure you aren’t a Christian?

Sheshbazzar

Did I say I had "spent a gazillion years researching things"? No,
only a few hundred hours on the word 'amen'. The fact is, I just gathered together my notes and writings on the subject, which are all hand written, (and were composed for a far different audience than this Forum) and from many years before I had access to the Internet, with the intention of typing it all in here, adapting it to this audience.
Now we all have an improved access to information, so I will spare you from any long dissertation on the origins of the word Amen, which would waste both time and bandwidth in a thousand tangent disputations,
Therefore regrettably, I'll leave it to you to employ you own scholarship skills in researching the matter honestly.
If you choose to so believe, feel free to mark it up to my ignorance of the subject.

Loomis

Have no doubt, we already did.

Dharma

I only look at the original Hebrew:
http://www.allstarz.org/religioustext/bib/tv/

with the verse in question:

29:1 mizmor ledhâvidh hâbhu layhvh benêy 'êliym hâbhu layhvhkâbhodh vâ`oz


Indeed, sheshbazaar and YHWH are ahead...there is no Yahab ben El...

the Jealous and angry God YHWH SCORES! ahead due to reading the ACTUAL transliteration oh foolish ones...



:angry: jealous, angry God YHWH gives a body slam to El and Allah! BAM!

Sheshbazzar

[QUOTE=Loomis]My dearest Zerubabble,

I have already done that from the get-go. You said so yourself. My source is the Strong’s Concordance found here:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_d...33-4453.html#1

It reads yahab y@hovah ben el. ".....

The Hebrew text given in the BlueLetterBible, most certainly DOES NOT read, "yahab yahweh ben el" you are not reading from the actual Hebrew text that is presented , but are using the graph presented on the side, As I posted in #12 above, the word "yahab" does NOT appear anywhere in the actual Hebrew text of this verse, neither does the Hebrew word "ben"

“Acknowledge Yahweh, the son of El" ........

Your 'so called' translation here is a farce, Correctly in Hebrew and English it is:
"ha'bu la'Yahweh ben'ey elohim, Ha'bu la'Yahweh ka'bod v'oz"
"Give you to Yahweh, sons of elohim, Give you glory and strength".

And it is easily evident that these words are saying a LOT more than your 'so called' translation provides.

"Now you are saying that this is news to you and that you won’t proceed until I account for every letter in the Hebrew alphabet." ........

I DID NOT ask you to account for every letter of the Hebrew alphabet, I asked you to provide ONE letter, the first of this verse that you are professing to be such an expert on.

"You are asking us to believe that it is a mistranslation simply because you say so? "........

Nope, I'm asking for honest men to look into the matter, and am unequivocally stating that YOUR interpretation is wrong according to all the rules of Hebrew spelling and grammar, and furthermore is not supported by any actual Bible text in existence . (BlueLetterBible's side bar word on word rendering is NOT the actual text of the Scripture, and does not distinguish between singulars and plurals, and the grammatical inflections that are present in the actual Hebrew text)

To any one concerned, There is no Scriptural ground to your mis-translation of Psalm 29:1

"Now that I have come clean please show us YOUR Bible and tell us why studying one Bible in particular is better than studying several Bibles."......

Have you seen a Torah? have you actually read this entire Book in the Hebrew language?
I have; It is my Bible
Do you have a copy of The Tanaka? Do you read all the words written therein?
I do; It is my Bible
Do you have a copy of "Ha Berith Ha Kadesha"? Do you read all of the words that are written therein?
I do; It is my Bible
but in fact beyond that, I have many Bibles, Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, and many more which you have never laid your eyes upon.

"Like I said before, I would love to hear your take on Psalm 29:1 "

You have heard it, and YOU are dead wrong.
-Zerubabble-

Sheshbazzar

Though it is admittedly a minor point Dharma, I did not, and do not read from any type of transliteration, because as I said, I do read Hebrew, and do all of my own transliteration directly from the Hebrew text, and have been so doing for many years now. I only employ reference materials outside of the written Hebrew text when the reading or meaning of a verse is extremely obscure,
I say this least some should think from your statement, That I am
"ahead due to READING the actual transliteration" But now it is you, that is ahead of the ignorant, because you have taken the time to search, and to carefully read the transliteration which you found. Yah bless you.
-Zerubabble-

Dean Anderson

This discussion of translation issues has been split from this joke thread so that it can get some serious attention.