miniverchivi

I keep hearing people ranting about the end-times and the tribulation. People (including my parents) keep quoting revelations and prophecies in the bible that have already supposedly came true. As a universalist, I don't take the bible literally, so I've never believed in the validity of the rapture, tribulation, or anything else for that matter.

I've taken the liberty of reading some of Revelations, and it seems to me that some of these "prophecies" are so vaguely worded, that they could be twisted to fit any situation at any time.

Any thoughts??? Any suggestions on a rebuttal to these people who keep telling me this??

Splarnst

People have been predicting the end times since, well, the beginning of time. Yes, the prophecies can fit any period in history and have been used accordingly.

Wildgrass

Try googling for end times prophecy. I did it a few months back and found a site with a very long list. A very long history exists for the "very near" end of the world.

orac

The bible has vaguely worded prophecies? Dammit, next you'll be telling me that somewhere on earth is a capricorn not falling in love with a tall dark stranger today. Please, noone try to tell me that Melville never predicted anything either, ok? (Assassinations Foretold in Moby Dick!)

(Any time the bible code is mentioned as proof of its accuracy, the moby dick code should be quoted as evidence that Jesus's second coming has been and done, and his new name was Melville. It's not like cretins will ever understand basic statistics, but hopefully teaching other people to think will help immunise them against the incurable stupidity required in order to believe in all that crap.)

judge

I would just calmly, rationally, sit and examine the specifics of the arguments. I think you will see there is really nothing there

mata leao

rebuttal? how about repentance? all you need is a newspaper in one hand and a bible in the other! what the hell do you think the term "the elements melting" means? its in the Bible, look it up.......mark of the beast? do you know how a sub dermal ID chip works? plagues and pestilences in the latter days!!!! can you spell a-i-d--s, ebola, bird flu?

NZSkep

I also read somewhere on the net a list of bible prophecies that prove Napoleon was the second coming (I think it was by winace actually)

here is the http://winace.andkon.com/napoleon_messiah.htm

(Please let this not be in the stickies or I will be thought a fool)

regis

End Times

Prophecy

Fraud


Shock to see those three elements put together. Here's my take on the psychological underpinnings:

I recognize my own mortality so, since I'm gonna die, we're all gonna die.


:devil1:

NZSkep

Yes and I can also spell black death, scurvy, german measels, malaria, rabies, yellow fever, diptheria and dozens of other diseases that were all massive killers and now barely exist in the western world. People now live a lot longer than years gone by and are generally healthier now than in history. Plagues and pestilences are virtually a thing of the past in the modern world. How many people did ebola kill? Bird flu? how about mad cow disease? (here is a clue - fuck all compared to the bubonic plague.) AIDS is the only exception really - and a lot of that is down to fundies like yourself stopping Africans from having condoms to protect themselves.

Diogenes the Cynic

The Book of Revelation is all about events of the late 1st Century CE. It's an example of apocalyptic literature, an esoteric genre designed to use coded allegory in order to pass messages to an initiated audience. Revelation is all about the Roman Empire and all the familiar images in it pertain to that time and place. The "Whore" was Rome. The "Beast" was the Emperor. The heads were all different Emperors, the last of which was Domitian, during whose reign Revelation is believed to have been written. There was a popular belief at the time that domitian was Nero in disguise, so that's the explanation for the head that was "wounded and healed." The "mark of the Beast" was Roman currency with the Emperor's image on it, symbolically "branding" the audience for the book (presumably early Christians, but the book may have originally been written for a Jewish audience) as "slaves" to the Emperor (Roman slaves were typically branded on their hands or their heads).

The "Number of the Beast" was a numerical anagram for Nero.

It should be noted that the Book of Revelation does not contain the word. "antichrist" (a word found only in the Epistles of John and which has no relationship to the "Beast" of Revelation or to any concept at all of a futuristic supervillain who will take over the world).

Also, there is nothing in the Bible about a "Rapture" event in the sense of a preliminary parousia which will sweep up all the good fundies before the "tribulation." The Bible speaks only of a single "second coming" and that's it.

As to all the modern rubbish interpreting Revelation as a guidebook to the future- it's all just wishful thinking and fantasy.