Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Celsus · 03-10-2004, 03:04 PM

My third installment is finally here:

Introduction to Archaeology III: The Rise of Some People or Other

a.k.a. Why shouldn't we dismiss Dever, and what's wrong with Finkelstein? (for those following the other thread)

Joel

Kosh · 03-10-2004, 07:42 PM

Lemme see if I've followed this correctly. So a group of Greek peoples invade Palestine, then expand into Canaan. They eventually become Canannites, who then transform into Israel. Israel then produces Xianity, and the Gospels are believed, by some, to be based on Homer, a Greek story?

How ironic!

Celsus · 03-10-2004, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kosh
Lemme see if I've followed this correctly. So a group of Greek peoples invade Palestine, then expand into Canaan. They eventually become Canannites, who then transform into Israel. Israel then produces Xianity, and the Gospels are believed, by some, to be based on Homer, a Greek story?

Slow down! The Philistines only ever expanded thirty or forty kilometres inland from Gaza. I'm not quite sure what happened to the Sikil at Dor. They did eventually assimilate after their defeat--that is, the small remnant. So they can't be seen as the Canaanites who "transform" into Israel. The Canaanites who did transform into Israel may have been from Jordan (as Finkelstein thinks), or from the Canaanite cities in the west whom Joshua is said to have defeated (which, metaphorically, is true, since they wrote them out of history).

Joel

Celsus · 03-17-2004, 02:16 AM

*bump*

For those who are following the series, I'm going to embark on part IV soon. I'll be writing the next piece on the rise and fall of the Israelite and Judahite monarchies (Iron II). If I don't have enough material, I'll go on to the Babylonian and Persian periods. I'll probably be kinder to Dever and harsher on Finkelstein just to even things up a bit. I think I'll have an appendix on maximalist appraisals of David's and Solomon's kingdoms, regardless of my own views.

What I need are:
(1) a good minimalist reference beyond Finkelstein
(2) a general "theme" (Finkelstein vs. the establishment will get quite boring I think)
(3) some discussion on Mesopotamian references to the Omrides and Judah etc.
(4) copious amounts of coffee

I will probably not be discussing any biblical criticism at this stage and save them for once I've finished archaeology per se. Since this topic is aimed at beginners, please don't be shy to make suggestions on readability, style, format, and other issues as well.

Joel

RED DAVE · 03-19-2004, 01:17 PM

This is fascinating. Could you provide links to parts I and II?

RED DAVE

Hugo Holbling · 03-20-2004, 12:09 AM

Look here, RD, under The Hebrew Bible & Archaeology. Celsus is away for a short while, so i hope you don't mind my answering.

03-10-2004, 03:04 PM	#1
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	Intro to Archaeology III My third installment is finally here: Introduction to Archaeology III: The Rise of Some People or Other a.k.a. Why shouldn't we dismiss Dever, and what's wrong with Finkelstein? (for those following the other thread) Joel

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03-10-2004, 07:42 PM	#2
Kosh Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Orions Belt Posts: 3,911	Lemme see if I've followed this correctly. So a group of Greek peoples invade Palestine, then expand into Canaan. They eventually become Canannites, who then transform into Israel. Israel then produces Xianity, and the Gospels are believed, by some, to be based on Homer, a Greek story? How ironic!

03-17-2004, 02:16 AM	#4
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	bump For those who are following the series, I'm going to embark on part IV soon. I'll be writing the next piece on the rise and fall of the Israelite and Judahite monarchies (Iron II). If I don't have enough material, I'll go on to the Babylonian and Persian periods. I'll probably be kinder to Dever and harsher on Finkelstein just to even things up a bit. I think I'll have an appendix on maximalist appraisals of David's and Solomon's kingdoms, regardless of my own views. What I need are: (1) a good minimalist reference beyond Finkelstein (2) a general "theme" (Finkelstein vs. the establishment will get quite boring I think) (3) some discussion on Mesopotamian references to the Omrides and Judah etc. (4) copious amounts of coffee I will probably not be discussing any biblical criticism at this stage and save them for once I've finished archaeology per se. Since this topic is aimed at beginners, please don't be shy to make suggestions on readability, style, format, and other issues as well. Joel

03-19-2004, 01:17 PM	#5
RED DAVE Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 10,532	This is fascinating. Could you provide links to parts I and II? RED DAVE

03-20-2004, 12:09 AM	#6
Hugo Holbling Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Self-banned in 2005 Posts: 1,344	Look here, RD, under The Hebrew Bible & Archaeology. Celsus is away for a short while, so i hope you don't mind my answering.

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