JoeNothin

I had to go to India on a buisness trip in February. I was only there for four weeks and didn't get a chance to travel around very much. Mostly, I stayed in Mumbia, near my company's office.

However, I did take a long weekend to go to Thekkady, Kerala. Kerala has the largest population of Christians in India. Legend has it that the Apostle Thomas went to Kerala in 52 AD, and he established several chruches there. The Christians in Kerala believe they are part of the oldest extant Christian tradition. FROM HERE:

And HERE:

If the church in Kerala was established around 52 AD or roughly 20 years after Christs alleged crusifixion, then it pre-dates the Biblical canon by about 250 years. If this is true, then their teachings, while corrupted over the ages by outside influence of other brands of Christianity, would be closer to what an actual disciple of Jesus taught. This really facinates me.

It also raises some questions for me, that I haven't been able to find good answers for:

Since Thomas was one of Jesus' apostles, he would have claimed to have known Jesus personally -- in the flesh, as it were. Isn't the history of this church evidence for a real historical Jesus?

The Kerala Christians believe in Jesus' divinity. Doesn't that suggest that the first Christians, those associated with the apostles, believed in Jesus' divinity? (I had always thought Jesus didn't really become divine till the third century. Perhaps I'm mistaken.)

I didn't have time to get ahold of one of thier Bibles, but if anyone knows, do they have the same canon as Western Christians?

I've also had a lot of trouble finding how the teachings of these churches differ from Western Christianity. Any comments about that would be welcome.

TedM

It is an interesting tradition but I wonder what evidence exists for their origin claims...documents..artifacts..lists of early leaders, etc.... Are there any?

Along the same lines is this list of Alexandrian (Coptic) popes, found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Coptic_Popes: Anyone know anything about the support for this tradition?

"This list contains only those Patriarchs who served before the schism of AD 451. For post-schism Patriarchs, follow the links at the bottom of this page.

Mark the Evangelist (43—63)
Anianus (61—82)
Avilius (83—95)
Kedron (96—106)
Primus (106—118)
Justus (118—129)
Eumenes (131—141)
Markianos of Alexandria (142—152)
Celadion (152—166)
Agrippinus (167—178)
Julian (178—189)
Demetrius (189—232)
Heraclas (232—248)
Dionysius (248—264)
Maximus (265—282)
Theonas (282—300) "

JoeNothin

I haven't been able to find anything online. The only evidence I was able to gather while there is anecdotal at best. For instance, there were some that claimed they knew the location of Thomas' tomb. The legend is that he was martyred in 72AD. But I haven't been able to find any evidence (online) for any of their claims. It is clear, however, that the Christian church goes back a very long time in that region.

I find the timing of the church to be very interesting. However, I have no expertise in this area.

Toto

I would be very dubious about any claims of historical authenticity. There are claims that Jesus traveled to India in the missing years (age 12 - 30), also that he survived the cross and then went to India, and was buried in India, or Japan. . .

Not unless there is actual proof that Thomas was one of Jesus' disciples and founded the church - none of which has any hard evidence.

That sounds like the Da Vinci Code psuedo-history. The earliest Christians who left any evidence believed in Jesus' divinity. That supports the hypothesis that Jesus was originally a divine supernatural entity who was later historicized.

judge

Certainly these ideas were around in eusebius's time.

Doug Shaver

It would be, if there were evidence that the history was accurate.

There is a story, still told even in school textbooks, that Florida was discovered by Ponce de Leon while he was looking for a "fountain of youth" that he had heard about from some Caribbean Indians, and that during his search he landed near what is now St. Augustine. An artesian well at the purported landing site is now a tourist attraction called the Fountain of Youth.

Except for the current existence of the tourist attraction, none of this is supported by good documentary evidence. It is not known what European first laid eyes on Florida, but it shows up on maps produced before Ponce's voyage. Ponce did explore the Florida peninsula but probably got no farther north than Cape Canaveral. No document produced by him, or by anyone else in a position to know his thinking, attests to his being on a quest for anything besides gold, slaves, or other commodities of confirmed value.

David B

No more, no less, than any other bronze age culture believing in some divinity supports the hypothesis that their divinity was a divine supernatural entity who was later historicised.

David B

Toto

I'm not sure what you are saying. For Christianity, we have evidence of Jesus being treated as a god from the earliest documents, followed by evidence of Jesus being regarded as a human, or at least taking human form. For most other bronze age cultures, we lack evidence of a later historicization of their deities.

David B

Alexander the Great, lots of Caesars, lots of Pharoahs are pretty well historiicised.

David B

Toto

They were historical, not historicized. Do you have some indication that the first people who know Alexander thought that he was a deity - walking through walls, etc? It was only after they died that they were elevated to deityhood.