FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-25-2011, 08:00 PM   #1
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Alberta
Posts: 11,885
Default Beauty and Truth

If there is any truth to be found in the Gospels it must be in myth as there is no beauty to be found in a wandering preacher with his ass on fire for the Lord, . . . but I suppose he has to do what he's got to do and so Jesus probably was a real being who got kicked around often enough that he got the job done.

Let me remind you tho, that myth proper is real and more real than any of us here but I do not quite know how to defend it myself and will leave it at that.
Chili is offline  
Old 10-25-2011, 09:11 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 945
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili View Post
If there is any truth to be found in the Gospels it must be in myth as there is no beauty to be found in a wandering preacher with his ass on fire for the Lord, . . . but I suppose he has to do what he's got to do and so Jesus probably was a real being who got kicked around often enough that he got the job done.

Let me remind you tho, that myth proper is real and more real than any of us here but I do not quite know how to defend it myself and will leave it at that.
I don't think it's fair to say there's no beauty in the Gospels. Granted, there are many ugly things.

I personally like this one from gT:

Quote:
If your leaders say to you, 'Look. The Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds in the sky will get there before you do. If they say, 'it is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you and outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the Living One. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and you are that poverty.
I agree that the only truth of any significance in the Gospels is spiritual or mythical.
Horatio Parker is offline  
Old 10-25-2011, 09:39 PM   #3
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Alberta
Posts: 11,885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio Parker View Post
[QUOTEI don't think it's fair to say there's no beauty in the Gospels. Granted, there are many ugly things.

I personally like this one from gT:

Quote:
If your leaders say to you, 'Look. The Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds in the sky will get there before you do. If they say, 'it is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you and outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the Living One. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and you are that poverty.
I agree that the only truth of any significance in the Gospels is spiritual or mythical.
I like it but much to bold in assertion as we cannot make our inside the aim of our destiny nor can we make our own mind the subject of our inquiry and therefore a mystery religion must do the trick with a better answer than things will go better after we die.
Chili is offline  
Old 10-25-2011, 10:01 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 945
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili View Post
I like it but much to bold in assertion as we cannot make our inside the aim of our destiny nor can we make our own mind the subject of our inquiry and therefore a mystery religion must do the trick with a better answer than things will go better after we die.
I thought this thread was about myth.

Myth addresses the present, not the afterlife.
Horatio Parker is offline  
Old 10-25-2011, 10:10 PM   #5
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Alberta
Posts: 11,885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio Parker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili View Post
I like it but much to bold in assertion as we cannot make our inside the aim of our destiny nor can we make our own mind the subject of our inquiry and therefore a mystery religion must do the trick with a better answer than things will go better after we die.
I thought this thread was about myth.

Myth addresses the present, not the afterlife.
Afterlife is in the present, and it is not about myth but was really meant to be my opinion on the HJ argument in favor of the MJ.
Chili is offline  
Old 10-25-2011, 10:38 PM   #6
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
Default

"Never did eye see the sun
Unless it had first become
Sun-like
And never can soul
Have the vision of
The First Beauty
Unless itself be beautiful.


~Plotinus
[CE 204/5–270]
mountainman is offline  
Old 10-25-2011, 11:11 PM   #7
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Alberta
Posts: 11,885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman View Post
"Never did eye see the sun
Unless it had first become
Sun-like
And never can soul
Have the vision of
The First Beauty
Unless itself be beautiful.


~Plotinus
[CE 204/5–270]
Beautiful and always remember that our soul is a gift to us as we did not create our own self.
Chili is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 02:56 AM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 3,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili View Post
If there is any truth to be found in the Gospels it must be in myth as there is no beauty to be found in a wandering preacher with his ass on fire for the Lord, . . . but I suppose he has to do what he's got to do and so Jesus probably was a real being who got kicked around often enough that he got the job done.

Let me remind you tho, that myth proper is real and more real than any of us here but I do not quite know how to defend it myself and will leave it at that.
Well, I wouldn't go quite so far, but yes, I think there's a kind of truth in the myth of Jesus Christ.

I think it's best exemplified in the passage Galatians where "Paul" talks about Christ being that in you which cries "Abba! Father!"

IOW, we see ourselves in bondage in a world of suffering; Christ is that in us which recognises this evil as evil and yearns for more - that in us which wonders "is this all there is?"

That capability of discrimination (between good and evil) and that yearning (to return "home") is the call to God to "redeem" the soul from its bondage (i.e. meaning God "buys back" the soul from the slave pen) and brings it to its proper heritage, as Son of God (a chip off the old block).

IOW if there's any truth in the Christ myth, it's not so much mythical (in the sense of pertaining to the origins and practices of a culture) as mystical (one might say: pertaining to the existential situation of the individual and the absolute truth of his or her relation to the cosmos).
gurugeorge is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 08:48 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 945
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chili View Post
Afterlife is in the present, and it is not about myth but was really meant to be my opinion on the HJ argument in favor of the MJ.
And doesn't the "M" in "MJ" stand for Mythical? If you're in favor of MJ , you're in a mythical realm.

I agree: afterlife is the life after realization, not life after death.
Horatio Parker is offline  
Old 10-26-2011, 08:57 AM   #10
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Alberta
Posts: 11,885
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gurugeorge View Post
[Well, I wouldn't go quite so far, but yes, I think there's a kind of truth in the myth of Jesus Christ.

I think it's best exemplified in the passage Galatians where "Paul" talks about Christ being that in you which cries "Abba! Father!"

IOW, we see ourselves in bondage in a world of suffering; Christ is that in us which recognises this evil as evil and yearns for more - that in us which wonders "is this all there is?"

That capability of discrimination (between good and evil) and that yearning (to return "home") is the call to God to "redeem" the soul from its bondage (i.e. meaning God "buys back" the soul from the slave pen) and brings it to its proper heritage, as Son of God (a chip off the old block).

IOW if there's any truth in the Christ myth, it's not so much mythical (in the sense of pertaining to the origins and practices of a culture) as mystical (one might say: pertaining to the existential situation of the individual and the absolute truth of his or her relation to the cosmos).
Sorry I do not see mythical as cutural as mythical was first and mystical is too foggy for me as truth will stand on its own radiant and bright by day and by night.

The Abba Father is the 'timely uttering" that gave William Wordsworth relief and is just a 'natural call' (non-rational speech) to find release from human oppression which here has a religious slant added wherein God 'buys back' the soul, while in real life it is each on our own as the oppression is ours and ours alone in the world wherein we live and created for ourself. And so it is true that good and bad is the dichotomy that sets us apart and the concept evil is added for the persuasion with fear, while in reality it is an illusion without substance as such.

Gone for 3 days and sorry about that.
Chili is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:25 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.