burmart

First post, please don't kill me if this has been discussed before, but I performed a search and didn't find anything.

I recently got into a discussion with someone over Kwanzaa. This person was enraged that this "holiday" (from what I understand, more of a cultural holiday than a religious holiday) was invented by a "convicted felon." At this point I began wondering, was Jesus, himself a criminal? I began thinking about it and thought that Jesus' actions in the temple are clearly criminal actions, but are there any other instances of criminal behavior by Jesus? Do we have any clue what the charges of the romans were against him?

Of course, I'm operating under the concession that Jesus existed and the bible fairly accurately tells his story.

Chris Weimer

temple ruckus, saying the name of god, preaching that his disciples should slay his enemies, telling them not too

I think Jesus was more confused than anything else, although today he would have just been labelled criminally insane

Diogenes the Cynic

When did he say the name of God?

According to the synoptics, Jesus was convicted by the Sanhedrin for "blasphemy" (for a statement which was not actually blasphemous under Jewish law) and Pilate crucified him for claiming to be the "King of the Jews."

I suppose that if he really claimed to be the King of the Jews (which I doubt) then he was guilty of sedition under Roman law.

I guess he was conceivably guilty of some crime under Jewish law but nothing capital as far as I can tell.

Of course, the reason for the crucifixion is a debate in itself. For all we know he may have been more violent or radical than the gospels admit to.

Toto

The crimes commited by Ron Karenga, founder of Kwanzaa, are described here and here . Karenga appears to have raised a sanity defense, and spent relatively little time in prison for what sounds like a shocking incident, so that might have entered into the sentencing and his subsequent rehabilitation.

The point of the gospel stories is that Jesus was actually innocent but unfairly convicted. (A lot of convicts now maintain that fantasy about themselves.)

Justin Z

See my post here regarding what I remember of Mark 14 in my high school religion class. Jesus indeed says the name of God when he answers the question posed to him by the high priest -- "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?" by responding, "I am" -- translatable to "YHWH" apparently like in Exodus 3:14.

I am curious as to the veracity of this though, so any thoughts would be appreciated.

~Justin

Diogenes the Cynic

I think this is a reach. For one thing they would have been speaking Aramaic, not Hebrew so "I am" would not have been the Tetragrammaton, just the answer to the question. Mark is obviously written in Greek so it only quotes Jesus as saying "Eimi," but it does not indicate that Jesus switched to Hebrew or uttered the Tetragrammaton (or else why quote him in Greek?)

Justin Z

Many years down the road, in fact, I wondered to myself, "Hmm, since Aramaic is a Semitic language, does 'I am' translate the same way?" I had never really had a definitive answer though. I'd ask the ol' Priest about it but he got shipped off by the diocese to Ireland, and I'd probably end up having to explain why I was asking, and he wouldn't appreciate the fact that his former pupil (and a protestant at the time, no less) who scored a 104% in his class is now an atheist.

~Justin

Mr. Aardvark

July 4th is a holiday started by a bunch of white elites who created a nation and constitution that gave them considerable political power at the expense of many others they disenfranchised: women, slaves, Native Americans, men who didn't own property. Certainly that is "criminal" in any moral sense of the term.

Add how these founding foreskins authorized and participated in the slaughter of Native American non-combatants (women & children) who were part of the Iroquois Confederacy, then Mr. Karenga’s offenses, though serious, become misdemeanors in contrast.

Chili

Well he was "counted among the wicked" if that means anything. But I don't think he was a criminal that stood convicted before civil law. He was, or may have been, too 'slippery' for that since he had 2 serpents as informers by day and by night.

jonesg

His crime was the forgiving of sins, something which only God can do, so he said he was God by his actions more than word and he threatened the existence of the Sanhedrin.

He is thought to have told Pilate his Kingdom was not of this world, that is not punishable by death. He also said caesars taxes (money) was due to Caesar because the coins had Caesars face on it.