richard2

Hi,

This chapter of the Bible seems pretty straightforward: Paul believed that Jesus was coming in his time:

"Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for you to remain as you are. Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.

What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

So perhaps either Paul was wrong or ... ? How would a Christian apologist respond? I've posted about this on a few (Christian) forums in the past but had no real response. Maybe a Christian reading this will help explain what Paul was talking about.


thanks,

richard

judge

I am not an orthodox christian but this might help.

Preterism

Robodoon

oh sorry you did

Robodoon

but the end of the world (in general) for all people, is when they die, our lives are just vapors...just a flash in the pan.

Robodoon

Time is very short, but Christ was talking about Generations, not human life spans.

IMO

richard2

Huh?

gregor

Ignore robodoon.

The preterist position is clearly a post hoc attempt to re-frame eschatological promises into warnings of a mildly interruptive event - i.e. the temple would be destroyed. Paul clearly felt the world would end during the lives of his audience, as did the authors of the gospels.

These predictions failed, so the author of 2 Peter 3 had to explain why the world hadn't ended by 150 CE (when 2 Peter was written). His excuse is that 1,000 years is like a day to the lord, but don't worry, these are still the last days.

Apologists try everything to avoid the failed prophesies (genera = future generations or race, church age predicted in revelation, etc. etc.)

Chili

The passage is obviously made to a bunch of born-again Christians and is only valid for them. The crisis referred to is the short transition period between temporal and eternal life wherein Paul tells us that life must go on as it was predestined to us but because of the transition that exists only in our own mind we should be prepared to let go of our attachement to these temporal things.

Steven Avery

Of course if this dating were true, then there would be no conservative position on the New Testament at all. So it is invalid to use this dating as presumptive evidence against a conservative and/or preterist position.

If the dating were true, the NT would be an abject forgery.
(Same situations with the Pastorals).

Readers should be aware that the true 'evangelical' or 'conservative' or 'fundamentalist' position is quite simple - the author of 2 Peter is exactly who he claimed to be, Peter the apostle, sharing first person information on the Transfiguration, Paul's writings, and many other insights. And that this was written likely around 50-60 AD.

Shalom,
Steven

Vinnie

I dislike evangelical scholars as much as I do their opposite counterparts--the sensationalists. Anyways, what is the true 'evangelical' position on the Gospel of Thomas? Surely the author of the text is exactly who it claims it is. Was it written by the apostle Thomas in the 50s as well?

Vinnie