lee_merrill

I see! That is why no one argues for abiogenesis, they just post the 101 contradictions. That is why no one poses any evidence for common descent as an argument against special creation, they instead just refer people to this 101 contradictions list. That is why no one ever claims to have a new argument against Christianity! For to discuss it would be the proverbial errand that was proverbially foolish.

That is why no one discusses the prophecy of Tyre for three months, that is why no one posts in this forum! All that is necessary is to list these 101 contradictions one more time, to point people to them, and that is sufficient, and skeptics do see that it is obvious that they need do no more, and stop with that.

Regards,
Lee

badger3k

You do have some severe misunderstandings, don't you?

Let's see - the reasons forums like these exist is twofold. One is to share information. I have learned a lot on many subjects, ranging from psychology to physics to philosophy (to use P as an example on a whim). The other reason is that people like you, how constantly misunderstand science and scientific matters, continue to lie about them. That means that real scientists (and those interested in such things as evidence) have to work and debate and argue with these people, to show that, for example, the "problems" that creationists say are in evolution are in fact no such thing. If people were not contantly lying, these forums would probably still be active, but I suspect that there would be a different slant to what is posted.

If you hadn't realized it, scientists and scholars love to argue and debate- it's how the system works.

You also do not seem to understand the science at all. We point to common descent as evidence for evolution, which just happens to disprove your "special creation" idea. Science doesn't work by starting out trying to disprove Christian Fundamentalist claims - it doesn't need to, since for most people those claims have already been disproven. We learn more about human origins to learn more about them and increase our knowledge, not out of a desire to disprove already disproven theories.

When are you leaving for the north pole - you haven't answered that, Lee.
Again, you seem to misunderstand - from what I remember the tyre thread was started when claims were made that it was a fulfilled prophecy. Going through those months showed that the one who made that claim had no evidence to back up his claims, which showed others reading the real facts. It's called education, and maybe exposure of pseudoscience and pseudohistory.

If it were as easy as you say, then why haven't you simply pointed to the reasons the Bible is true and present no evidence?

Oh, wait....

lee_merrill

Hi Badger,

Um, that applies to this thread, too...

I don't recall saying that it is easy to prove that the Bible is true!

It is, however, quite easy to disprove clearly, by ... rebuilding Babylon. It's difficult to prove, a lot is involved, yet it is quite easy to disprove. Assuming an attempt to rebuild it will not fail...

May I also mention that the Muslim who posted the 101 contradiction list said my answers were good answers? He agreed that those points could be addressed, that indeed, all these 101 claims of contradictions most probably were incorrect, and thus this list did not disprove the Christian claims about the Bible.

Regards,
Lee

Johnny Skeptic

What do you have to say about this, Lee? Just answer this question, do you believe that Muslims specifically want the discredit THE BABYLON PROPHECY, or that they prefer to discredit OTHER PARTS OF THE BIBLE?

You already know why Muslims and skeptics oppose Christianity. They oppose Christianity because they consider Christians to be a threat. Muslims in particular oppose the foreign policy of the U.S., and they know that for the most part, it is Christians who determine U.S. foreign policy. You oppose Muslims and skeptics because you consider them to be a threat. I oppose fundamentalist Christians because they are the chief opponents of homosexuality, same sex marriage and physician assisted suicide.

Are you speaking for the majority of Christians, or for a very small minority of Christians? If only a very small minority of Christians share your view, what possible difference would that make to anyone except that small minority?

The point is, Lee, WHAT DO MUSLIMS AND SKETPICS BELIEVE WOULD BE THE RESULTS IF BABYLON WERE TO BE REBUILT? Do you dispute that Muslims and skeptics believe that if Babylon were to be rebuilt that for all practical purposes the Christian Church would still be as large as it is today, and much more importantly that U.S. foreign policy would be the same as it is today? If so, where is your evidence? If not, I am ready for you to concede defeat.

Excellent. Which colleges and pastors do you recommend that I contact? Please include the e-mail address of the pastor of your church and the e-mail addresses of some other pastors. I will include in my e-mails some of your arguments and my counter arguments from various posts.

I have asked you on a number of occasions to send James Holding a private message about these matters. Why haven’t you done so? I am quite certain that you are well aware that he would disagree with you and that you don’t want to embarrass yourself any more than you already have.

badger3k

Umm, for the third (?) time, you still don't seem to get it. I'm not sure if writing in plain English will work, but here goes - there are plenty of other ways to disprove the Bible, and most of them do not involve building anything anywhere, and most of them have been done. If you don't want to accept that, that's your delusion, but don't project this on to other people.

I'm still waiting to see when you are going to the North Pole to prove once more that Santa is fake. Can you please let me know when you are going? Otherwise, can I take it that you feel no need to disprove something that has been disproven already?
You can mention whatever you like, but it would help to get a link to this anonymous muslim. I'd be very interested in seeing this list, and listening to his rationale. If anything you said convinced him, then I am highly doubtful of his knowledge of anything. I've seen your arguments and argued with you before, Lee, and know the "quality" of your evidence, and if anybody bought that I'd be surprised. So, please, once again, back up your statements, and I do hope you are not lying about this as well.

Johnny Skeptic

Badger, somewhere in a past post Sauron posted what the Muslim's reply to Lee was. I remember that the Muslim said "I am attempting to circumvent your (Lee's) recurrent incomprehension." He also told Lee that if the Old Testament says that Babyon will never be rebuilt, he holds that prophecy to be true. He closed his message with "Siemplimente! Kapiche?

Regarding Lee's comment "He agreed that those points could be addressed, that indeed, all these 101 claims of contradictions most probably were incorrect, and thus this list did not disprove the Christian claims about the Bible,"
Lee is well aware that the Muslim has plenty of reasons other than the 101 claims why he thinks that parts of the Bible are fraudulent. The Secular Web has hundreds if not thousands of articles against Christianity, including a number of articles on Bible contradtions, that the I am certain that the Muslim agrees with. Regarding the articles on Bible contradictions, Lee most certainly will not claim that most skeptics maintain that "the contradictions most probably were incorrect."

badger3k

That was the same muslim who apparently wrote the 101 contradictions, then? I thought they were different people. I guess I'll have to dig through this thread and go look it up myself. I have time, now that it will be a week before I go to work (unfortunately not as a teacher, though the money is pretty good). Thanks for the response.

Johnny Skeptic

I am not sure about the details. I just remember part of what Sauron posted. You can ask Lee or Sauron where to find the Muslim's web site.

lee_merrill

Hi everyone,

No, Muslims do not want to discredit the Babylon prophecy, though I expect most of them do not know that rebuilding this city would overturn a clear prophecy in the Bible.

And also, in order to be consistent, I don't see how a person can simply refuse the first one, and yet do the second one.

Actually, I don't, I'm confident in God's deliverance, and have seen him deliver me, as well, and want them and you to have God be on your side, too, with his protection.

The bad enemy to have is God, I must say.

Isaiah 8:12-14 ... do not fear what they fear, and do not dread it. The Lord Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy, he is the one you are to fear, he is the one you are to dread, and he will be a sanctuary...

I have withdrawn any projection of the results of doing this, or of this discussion, that is again not what is done in a debate, to discuss the results of the discussion turning out one way or the other.

Any and all of them!

I'm not going to publish email addresses here! And really, you should do this homework yourself. And let's get back to the point of the first post.

Well yes, and it appears that some are not convinced yet. So a clear contradiction to Scripture, in a test like this, would be quite a prize, if you all are really seeking to convince other people.

Here is the discussion list, search for "101 contradictions" under "Message history" (not under "Jasmine corp.) there, and you should find this response.

Regards,
Lee

badger3k

Thanks for the link Lee. I did notice at least one problem with the contradictions. At least one of them is still a contradiction (4) and you are rather free in admitting errors in the Bible there, Lee (5&6, for example), which is surprising, but I don't want to derail this thread on a quick skim, and I don't want to post it without the ok of both authors.