Solo

But don't you find it odd that after all this slaughter, or "persecuting the church beyond measure" Paul was not known in the churches of Judea "by sight" (Gal 1:22) ?

Another thing that I find strange is that when Paul enumerates the perils and hardships he endured as a servant of Christ (in 2 Cr 11), a "danger" that he would have no doubt faced from those whom he had "once persecuted beyond measure", is conspicuously missing.

Like yourself, I would accept the historical ground for Paul persecuting the Nazarene church. Paul's unapologetic view of his former activities would not make sense if it was meant for didactic purposes. But I believe the letters confirm that even Paul exaggerated the extent of his former hostile acts against the church.

Jiri

Doug Shaver

You're funny, sometimes.

Rick Van Vliet

Paul was in charge of the slaughter immediately following the cross, but he wasn't at least involved before the cross? You are the one required to produce evidence for such a bold claim.

And the source, for Paul arguing with them, in the hope of them slipping up, which I already posted and am now posting again for the third time...

"26:9"I myself most assuredly thought that I ought to do many things
contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. 26:10This I also did in
Jerusalem. I both shut up many of the saints in prisons, having
received authority from the chief priests, and when they were put to
death I gave my vote against them. 26:11Punishing them often in all
the synagogues, I tried to make them blaspheme. Being exceedingly
enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities."

Rick Van Vliet

They didn't have photos and TV back then. How would they know what Paul looked like by sight in foreign countries?

And as the reaction to criticism of Paul here demonstrates, the horror of his slaughter of the original followers of Jesus was underestimated, not overestimated.

Rick Van Vliet

If I was a Christian, I would think Jesus was a god.

Rick Van Vliet

Slaughter means slaughter, death means death, Every house, means every house, men and women means men and women, saints put to death means saints put to death, none left preaching in Israel means none left preaching in Israel.

Words have meaning, even if inconvenient.

Solo

Judea was a foreign country to Jerusalem ?

Was underestimated by whom ?

Jiri

Rick Van Vliet

It wasn't Judea Paul was talking about, when he said they didn't know his face.

By whom, being Acts and the so called "genuine" letters of Paul.

Solo

Gal 1:22 (I) was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ.

But if the "horror" of the slaughter that you are so sure about was "underestimated" by the Acts and Paul's epistles, what do you base your impression the that it really was much worse that the NT indicates ? ...Let me guess: what you really want to tell us is that the critical reaction to your beliefs on this board was already present in the writers of the scriptures and that explains the lack of textual support for your position. Right ?

Jiri

Rick Van Vliet

It's in the Christian Bible. Repeatedly. Death means death. Slaughter means slaughter.

Deep thinkers have always found the Christian Bible to be two competing ideas, the ideas of Jesus and the ideas of Paul.

Those Gnostics that thought the God of the Hebrew Bible was some evil god, and this was hell, loved and love Paul even more than the Christians. His writings are fully compatible with God being evil and in effect, the devil. Marcion's Gnostic Bible was mostly those letters of Paul. The first time there was any trace of the "genuine" letters, they showed up as an edited and titled set in the Gnostic Bible of Marcion, in 130CE, two centuries before the Christian Bible.