UV2003

Greetings,
I've been reading more of the Bible and facing questions. One big question I have is about the possibility that many saints came out of their tombs and walked around Jerusalem after Jesus came back. This only appears in Matthew.

There is an article about it here: http://www.infidels.org/library/maga.../1saint92.html

Biblical defenders say things like it appears in Matthew because there was a Jewish spin on that gospel and this proved a prophecy for them. My question then is this: is there any known historical corroboration of this absolutely astonishing occurence: many dead people coming back to life and walking around Jerusalem?

If there is not, why not? Was it a fictional addition by the author of Matthew? And if so, then why must we take the literal resurrection of Jesus seriously if we need not take the literal resurrection of many saints seriously? Selective historicity is hard for me to deal with and is driving me insane.

Thanks,
UV

Toto

No.

It didn't happen.

Fictional or poetic licence or whatever.

Good point. If you insist on being consistent, I would recommend that you not take the resurrection of Jesus to be a literal event. Why is this not the obvious solution?

Magus55

Prove it.



Or it actually happened.



Because then we would have to accept a lie that Jesus didn't rise from the dead.

Godot

Rather, prove that it did happen. "Because the bible says so" is not a valid argument.

Quote:

Or it actually happened.

Or not. See above.

Quote:

Because then we would have to accept a lie that Jesus didn't rise from the dead.

Could you not possibly consider for one infinitesimally small moment that the story could be interpreted in an allegorical manner which would not reduce the majesty and mystery of the telling? It does not have to be the literal truth!

Amos

:notworthy :notworthy

And there is nothing wrong with it. It makes it even better if it can be yours that way.

Iasion

Greetings all,

Well,
it appears not.

After dozens of explanations over many months, maybe even years here, Magus (and other apologists) seems totally, fundamentally, pathologically unable to grasp this concept.

According to Magus, there are only 2 types of statements:
* truth
* lies

So, according to Magus -
* Shakespeare is a liar (because e.g. A Midsummer Night's Dream is not true)
* Tolkein is a liar (because the Lord of the Rings is not true),
* Aesop is a liar (because his fables were not true)


Seriously Magus, WHY can't you grasp the simple concept that not everything is either the truth or a lie?

Iasion

UV2003

Well, physically and historically speaking there are only lies and truth. So, if Christians believe that physically Jesus rose from the dead it is either true or not true.

However, in the context of the story itself, Jesus is representative of "the Truth", and he is mocked and killed for it. Ironically, if indeed the story, as a casual reading of it without any preconceived dogmatic leanings would imply, is fictoinal narrative (whether or not based on supposed events) then the infidels who attest to this fiction become, guess what, like Jesus himself. Why, because the Pharisees of the day, the Christian literalists, mock them and spit on them. All the while, the infidels point out the truth time and time again. So, in that sense it is the greatest story ever told because it is the ONLY story ever told, the story of truth against lies.

Amos

How about metaphor?

This would make the Christian literalist the pharisee and the infadel equal to the Roman with the last word.

Amaleq13

Magus,


Instead of trying to shift the burden, why don't you offer answers to the original questions?:


Thanks in advance but I'm not holding my breath.

WinAce

Let's see...

• Absolutely astonishing event, of which no contemporary historian known so much as alludes to.
• No mention in any other contemporary Christian source, either.
• Definite motive for creation to fulfill a Messianic expectation...
• By the same author who gave us such hits as Jesus riding two donkeys (in fulfillment of a misread prophecy from Zechariah mentioning only one) and the Herodian slaughter of innocents.

Nope, no making stuff up there, folks. Move along.