Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 02-02-2008, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

There is no extant source outside the early church that can corroborate anything about "Peter". Probabilities are based on evidence. What external evidence made an unknown execution probable on Vatican Hill?

The chronolgy and events with respect to Peter of the NT appear to be erroneous. Philo of Alexandria never wrote a single thing about any Jesus the Word, the Christ, with twelve disciples one of which is called "Peter" the rock.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Since Peter has letters addressed to churches in the New Testament do you have any theories on who the real author is?

Quote:

The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son. 1 Peter 5:13

But the New Testament contains events that appear to be fiction with respect to Peter. Just look at Acts 12.6-10

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And when Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains, and the keepers before the door kept the prison.

And behold the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison, and he smote Peter on the side....saying, Arise up quickly, And his chains fell off his hands.

And the angel said....Gird thyself, and bind on thy sandals. And so he did, And he said.....Cast thy garment about thee, and follow me.

And he went out, and followed him, and wist not that it was true which was done by the angel, but thought he saw a vision.

When they were past the first and second ward, they came unto the iron gate that leadeth into the city, which opened on his own accord; and they went out....and the angel departed from him.

Now, I am not sure that any part of this story is true. The author may have been dreaming along with the church fathers who claimed Peter was the first Pope. Or was it an angel who told them so?

Joan of Bark · 02-02-2008, 08:19 PM

My understanding also is that the power-hungry Gregory VII made himself the first 'universal' pope, and forbade anyone else from using the title (from Vicars of Christ, by Peter de Rosa).

But of course, no-one should be called "pope", as the word means "father", and Jesus said:

Matthew 23:9 (NIV)
And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

Huon · 02-03-2008, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Since Peter has letters addressed to churches in the New Testament do you have any theories on who the real author is?

Somebody who could read and write, either in Hebrew, or Aramaïc, or even in Greek. That does not fit very well with the portrayal of a fisherman.

Remember that the Gospel according to (kata) Mark was written by Mark according to the preachings of Peter in Rome, so says our good Eusebius.

arnoldo · 02-03-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huon

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Since Peter has letters addressed to churches in the New Testament do you have any theories on who the real author is?

Somebody who could read and write, either in Hebrew, or Aramaïc, or even in Greek. That does not fit very well with the portrayal of a fisherman.

Remember that the Gospel according to (kata) Mark was written by Mark according to the preachings of Peter in Rome, so says our good Eusebius.

Mark traveled with Peter.

Quote:

The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son. 1 Peter 5:13

mountainman · 02-03-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

And his chains fell off his hands.

Fashioned from the story of Philostratus about
Apollonius of Tyana c.220 CE which would have
been in the libraries of Rome 312 CE.

Best wishes,

Pete brown

paarsurrey · 02-15-2008, 08:18 AM

Hi

Just to refresh the thread.

arnoldo · 02-15-2008, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paarsurrey

Hi

Just to refresh the thread.

Thank you, the true church of Yeshua will forever exist according to this scripture. Matthew 16:13

Quote:

13 And Jesus, having come to the parts of Caesarea Philippi, was asking his disciples, saying, 'Who do men say me to be -- the Son of Man?' 14 and they said, 'Some, John the Baptist, and others, Elijah, and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.' 15 He saith to them, 'And ye -- who do ye say me to be?' 16 and Simon Peter answering said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' 17 And Jesus answering said to him, 'Happy art thou, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to thee, but my Father who is in the heavens. 18 'And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

The fact that the State of Israel and the Church, that was built upon the confession of Peter, both exist is a powerful witness to all the nations of the earth. :wave:

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02-02-2008, 08:19 PM	#42
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	My understanding also is that the power-hungry Gregory VII made himself the first 'universal' pope, and forbade anyone else from using the title (from Vicars of Christ, by Peter de Rosa). But of course, no-one should be called "pope", as the word means "father", and Jesus said: Matthew 23:9 (NIV) And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

02-15-2008, 08:18 AM	#46
paarsurrey Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,061	Hi Just to refresh the thread.

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