SkepticBoyLee

Certianly doesnt sound like the "man", who is supposedly GOD HIMSELF, is too confident as to the plans that he himself had been aware of all eternity does it??


The christian excuse is that he suddenly bursts into poetry in his moment of agony and is quoting Psalms 22.

This seems to be a pathetic excuse. First off he only said "My God. my God...." and didnt recite any more of it.

Second: of course in a book as big as the bible one can find another passage where one says "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me..." Essentially saying "Why God. Why have you forgotten me??". Harmonization after the fact?

Of course this verse is only problematic if you believe that Jesus IS God himself. If you believe he is Gods son only then this much less problematic. And this is what many (most?) christians believed before his dvinity was "settled" via the trinity doctrine.

This sounds like a harminization after the fact once the trinity doctrine became orthodox. Any input on this??

judge

Aramaic speakers seesm to agree that the greek here is a mistranslation of the Aramaic. Whoever translated this from Aramaic somehow got it wrong.

This online translation of the Peshitta has "why have you spared me?", whilst this translation says it doe not mean forsaken.
George Lamsa's translation does not translate it as forsaken either.

SkepticBoyLee

http://www.alamoministries.com/content/english/Gospel_literature/Jesus_Never_Said.html says that he REALLY said "My God, My God for this I was kept" in the aramaic.

So much for the inerrant KJV.

anyway Im still intersted in the supopsed sudden poetry reciting Jesus does of Psalms 22 and its supposed fullfilled prophecy.

Chili

It's a matter of perspective SkepticBoy. Just as you refused to be moved by the story were the Jews and pagans very much moved by the story.

Where they (and you) went wrong is that they did not know, nor could they know, that it was part of a happy story (a divine comedy) because they only saw the surface of it.

Go to the omniscient perspective of Luke and there Jesus knew that there were better times ahead and in John he consciously knew that this was the end of vanity (dukkha) for him.

Amaleq13

Many scholars think that the Gospel authors placed verses from the Hebrew Bible in the mouth of Jesus as he died on the cross because they had no idea what he actually said, if he said anything at all.

Within that context, the specific choice of passages says more about the specific beliefs of the author than the nature of Jesus.

post tenebras lux

I thought this sort of problem could be dealt with by saying that when God became human in the form of Jesus he was somehow limited in his knowledge just by being human.

This idea also buttresses the idea of the crucifiction being the ultimate sacrifice by Jesus as it could be claimed that he really thought he was going to die.

However, the idea of Jesus not knowing everything whilst he was human seems to throw up problems elsewhere.

Do you really think I'm surprised? :huh:

Luxie

lulay

"the name "Elijah" is fomed of the same elements as the divine name Elohim and the Bacchic cry "eleleu", ans was doubtless intnded to serve as a clue to the preceding cryptograph. The words, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani", but dubiously mean "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" as every Semiticist knows. The "translation" is another of the New Testament "false renderings" of special cultic names or invocations......."lama sabachthani is a clever approximation to the important Sumerian name of the sacred mushroom *LI-MASh-BA(LA)G-ANTA, a source of word-play of so much of the New Testament myth...."(The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, J.Allegro)

gregor

It might have been the Separationists-branch of Xianity who believed that Christ dwelled in Jesus during his life and left before his death.

lulay

being invisible. it means you can sneak in and pinch peoples handbags....tee hee

Chris Weimer

http://www.messiahtruth.com/psa22.html

Here is what is actually said, Hebrew and KJV versions.