Beetle

Actually, we have one in Boston, and it's located on the waterfront.

Doctor X

Then it IS true!!!!

How else can you explain the Red Sox . . . and the Patriots?!!!!! [!--Ed.]

--J. "Signs! Portents!" D.

chapka

I don't know what this means. Does "the answer will come" mean you're going to answer, or not? Saying "it's obvious that there are more similarities" won't work, because there are clearly people who disagree with you. Do you have any serious analysis?

As for the name "world trade center," how is this important? Most of the events I listed had greater effects on world trade. The name isn't in the Bible, and the description could fit Paris, Constantinople, or London at the times I mentioned just as well.

Anyway, you can't pick out one alleged "similarity" and say it proves your point. I listed several things in my post that were true for the Bastille but not the WTC. If you say the prophecy "predicted" the Bastille, the Revolution, and the Terror, for example, this passage makes perfect sense:

Review my earlier post for details. We have a queen, notorious for luxury and extravagance, who is executed the same day as her family; who refuses to be addressed as "widow", suddenly cast down and executed. How is this not at least as compelling a similarity as yours?

Jack the Bodiless

There is also one in Barcelona. It's on the waterfront, in the harbor area.

I expect there are dozens, all over the world.

...And, yes, I believe in justice. That's one of the reasons why I reject the Biblical God.

Kattaz

Thanks Jack the Bodiless for that you have the honesty to publish the entire quote (and thanks all for answers). That way we see that are not only one accidentally similarity, but a collection of similarities. Even their number is a powerful argument that WTC is Revelation’s Babylon. Jack, the Bible is a very difficult book; Biblical God is indeed sometimes not peaceful, but when He is that way, He have always decisive reasons. Even more, His true light is not showed by Bible, we see here just a shadow of haven true.
More arguments:
Revelation 18:9,10 „When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury ... terrified at her torment, they will stand far off and cry ...”
That’s true, many presidents and country leaders from all the world hide in bunkers, being afraid they take all security measures that they know.
Revelation 18:18 „Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off ...”
Like Koyaanisqatsi said, all ships are ordered to dock. The naval transport was regress for a while.
Revelation 18:15 „The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her tormen”
Now, who fly with airplanes? Common people don’t do it every day, but businessmen, merchant of Revelation, stop their travel for a while.
What is unique that this effects are manifested in entire world, not regionally.

chapka

In other words, you're not going to respond to any of my actual argument, except to assert again that there are a lot of correspondences.

I've pointed out more correspondences with the Bastille than you have with the WTC. All of the three verses you cite fit the Bastille BETTER:

+ There was an actual queen involved, committing actual adultery with actual kings. They actually fled France and did not return until after the Napoleonic wars. How is this a less compelling correspondence than "well, lots of presidents have security services"?

+ Not only were boats turned away from French ports, they weren't let back in in a few days like they were in New York. Again, trade routes which had been established since the Bronze Age and before were disrupted from 1789 until after the Napoleonic Wars ended, by which time neutral ports had grown and many French seaports never recovered. There have been no long-term effects on the Port of New York from the WTC attack.

+ Merchants obviously avoided revolutionary France just as they did New York. Again, the difference is that the disruption lasted for decades and not days, and that it resulted in the end in the decimation of the merchant fleets of Europe. How is this not closer to the "prophecy" than businessmen postponing business trips for a few days?

As for the global/local effects, that's another point for me. The WTC attacks had short-term effects on business in the United States, long-term effects in Iraq, and mild to no effects elsewhere. The Revolution had truly global effects, disrupting trade anywhere France, England, Spain, or any other European power had colonies. That's not "regional."

And this is just one of the examples. Can you give me just a single example of how the "prophecy" fits the WTC better than any of my other suggestions? Hint: in order to do this, you need to do more than point out a correspondence; you have to explain why it doesn't exist in the other event.

Or you could just admit that the "prophecy" is vague enough to apply to anything, and that the only people who knew in advance what would happen were the religious maniacs who planned it.

Kattaz

Chapka, the Babilon is not really a queen; why? Revelation 17:7 speak about mistery, symbol of this women, and Revelation 17:18 show that this women is „the big city” (sound like the big apple), but I already show why your english transaltion of „city” is a little unfair. And this way, the adultery of Babilon is a symbolic exprimation (maybe not entirely). And why 11 september is so unique? Let’s see:
Revelation 18:9 „When the kings of the earth who committed adultery with her and shared her luxury SEE the smoke of her burning”
Revelation 18:18 „When they SEE the smoke of her burning”
Indeed this was only event who was TV transmited to entire World and was watched LIVE by world leaders, merchants and many more , who correspond with Revelation descriptions. Even more, is the only event who doesn’t have contradictions with Revelation’s relatation. This is a prophecy, in time of John, there was no TV, but the Revelation speak about a event who is seen by all earth; strage no? (if you don’t accept this is a real prophecy).

chapka

In other words, your event fits better than mine as long as "city" doesn't really mean "city," "queen" doesn't really mean "queen," "adultery" doesn't mean "adultery," and "kings" doesn't really mean "kings." And "big city" means "the big apple" but doesn't really mean "city". But "see" clearly means "see live through television," and "stand far off and cry" clearly means "hire additional security services." And "adultery" clearly means "symbolic exprimation," whatever the hell that means. If I handed out super-special new meanings like this I could make the book of Revelations be about an episode of Gilligan's Island.

Meanwhile you've failed utterly to account for the fact that the WTC disaster had few or no serious long-term effects on trade. That the buildings are being rebuilt, in contradiction to your prophecy. And you've failed to explain where in the Bible {Comment deleted} you pulled "the name World Trade Center is part of the prophecy."

{Comment deleted}. It wasn't part of any "divine plan." Does it really make you feel better to think that everyone who died were bad, bad people who deserved it and God was just punishing them for their "symbolic exprimation," please keep it to yourself. {Comment deleted}. Fundamentalist wing-nut bullshit religion killed those people, not anybody's god.

Seriously, the Book of Revelation is about first-century Rome. It's not about the end of the world and was never meant to be. You're going to be here until you die, and Jesus is not coming back for you. Even most Christians realize this; your preacher is lying to you when he says that it's obvious. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you can start living your life with some meaning {Comment deleted}.

{Comment deleted}

beowulf_king

I don't know if it's just me, but didn't anyone pick up the references from that biblical passage to the ancient city of....BABYLON?

Babylon was conquered in 330 BC by Alexander the Great, and after his death was used as the capital for ruling dynasty. However the capital moved and the city basically was forgotten and almost disappeared.

The city profited by it's location since it was at the main traderoute connecting the Persian Gulf and the Mediterranean. The only problem will be the mention of the Sea, but the author of revelations, which according to microsoft encarta lived on a small island in the aegean sea, maybe wouldn't know the exact landmarks of babylonia or maybe mentions sea since he was surrounded by it?

Well, from the situation of Babylon (near Baghdad), you have your choice of three seas: the Mediterranean, Persian Gulf, or Red Sea. And as I mentioned earlier, "never to be found again" goes with the city being forgotten after the capital was moved.

Also, all the mentioning of Kings would relate to Babylon being the capital for some period of time.

But then again, maybe this is to obvious to be correct

Postcard73

I've tried to remove the various comments not related to the possible prophecy of the 9-11 events in Revelation. Those posts were split to here, though I'm not exactly sure what forum they belong in at the moment. I realize that 9-11 is a very emotional issue for many people. Please keep comments in this thread related to the OP.

Scott (Postcard73)
BC&H Moderator