Buster Daily

Leviticus 16:7-10 comes to mind. (There was also a desert demon Azazel here somewhere that was quietly translated away):devil1:

Buster Daily

More importantly why do they pray to God from hospital beds?...and what does the surgeon think after busting his ass in an operating room for four hours when the patient says, "Praise God. A miracle!"

mdarus

The primary biblical reference for your question has to be:
This verse suggests that there is a similarity between the way God deals with animals and the way he deals with humans. It also marks a difference. Humans are valued more than animals.
It seems that there are similarities and differences. It is not clear how similar the tangible lives would need to be to indicate God did not exist.
The information we are lacking is how much he does prevent and how much he allows. If you are saying, "If God exists there could be no natural disasters or serious birth defects in babies.", I would want to know more. Are minor birth defects permitted? I inclement weather permitted? Are you expecting God to eradicate all evil or just the worst? Where would you draw the line?
Thoughtful Christians recognize that troubles come from many sources. Some we cause ourselves, some are caused by the poor choices of others, some may even be sent from God to serve a purpose. Most of us have so much trouble with the world and the flesh that the devil has little to do.
Christians should not assume that healing is the only way God works. Many Christians with serious disabilities have lead amazing lives. It is proper for a Christian to ask for healing but to also seek for God's best, which may not be healing. Christians likely ask for healing because that is their preference.
Sometimes what causes trouble is very clear. I cause a lot of my own trouble. Other times it is not clear at all.

xaxxat

It just seems to me it was a clever Levite scam to get free barbeque...

Joan of Bark

Replace the word "men" with "God" and I will agree with you. Humans are far less guilty of slaying innocents than your 'loving and merciful' God.

Buster Daily

Bwaaaaaaaaa. Do you think I can get some of that roast mutton with cucumber sauce...or hummus? I'd hang out behind the curtain in the holy of holies so no one bothered me while I ate. Forgive my possible anachronisms. I was too lazy to do a google search on the history of foods.

Buster Daily

You give God far too much credit. If he was capable of slaying the unrighteous he would do it. God is only capable of whispering in the ears of zealots who are more than willing to kill on command. Who knows? Maybe he IS capable but he watched too many episodes of "Bewitched" and "I Dream of Barbara Eden". I'm not including "Sabrina the Teenaged Witch" in the list. God hit his peak (like white American straight protestant males) in the late 50's. He doesn't watch that crap. Anyway...there are rules to using your powers.

Mikezrh

Johnny, I have some anecdotal evidence of miraculous healings of animals that have been attributed to God. I asked a Christian friend if they knew of any such cases & got two examples:

1. Two Christians were going door-to-door in their local community preaching the good news. Came to the house of one elderly gentleman who was a non-believer & a bit of a skeptic but who listened to what they had to say. In the course of their visit, the preachers learned that the gentleman had a pet parakeet (not a Norwegian Blue!) that had developed an ugly tumour & was heading for its last squawk. So the visitors "laid hands" on the parakeet & asked God to heal it & thereby provide evidence to the old chap that God really did exist. Less than a week later the old guy saw one of the Christians in the local supermarket, ran up to them & explained that the parakeet's tumour had shrivelled up & dropped off within 2-3 days of their visit. Said parakeet was as good as new!

2. Young couple, recently converted to Christianity, had gone out to a church meeting one night & left their dog tethered on the front porch of their house. On returning from church a few hours later they find the dog hanging over the front edge of the porch, strangled by its leash &, by all accounts, as dead as a dodo. (They said the dog's body was cold but no rigor mortis.) The couple took the poor dog's body into house, laid it out on a table & commenced praying, etc., & "claiming God's promises" from scripture for the dog. Said dog reportedly staged a full recovery & went on to live a long & healthy life.

Unfortunately, neither of the above two reports were independently corroborated. Also, the first example, if true, would be a miracle performed primarily for the benefit of the owner, not the animal. The second example, if true, could be argued as primarily benefiting the dog.

Sorry that it's not hard & fast evidence but thought you might be interested to hear some of what's out there.

Mike

Thomas II

Hmm...But what about these pigs Jesus "filled" with demons?
We are talking here about 2000 pigs, who then proceeded to jump off a cliff into the ocean, and drowned!:huh: I imagine all this also probably ruined the owner of the pigs!!
It's all in Mark 5 I think.

And there is another issue...Every time Jesus would heal someone he would say to the healed, "Go, your FAITH has healed you..."
Obviously the animals don't know anything about faith,can not have faith about healing, so then how could any miracle ever happen with the aimals?
Isn't faith part of the formula?

And since we are talking about miracles, how could the servant of the centurion be healed if he does not even know that Jesus is healing him?
Jesus tells the centurion that the servant is healed because the centurion has faith, but doesn't the directly interested party, the servant, has a saying?
Or is it because the servant was maybe a slave he did not count because the centurion had ownership over his servant/slave :huh:

Sheshbazzar

As both of these posts were in response to mine, and deal with the same subject matter, I'll address their concerns together.
Against Richard Friedman's observation and explanation about the rationale for animal sacrifices as being instituted or continued primarily for food purposes, due consideration must be given to the Biblical texts and to what they reveal to be the rationale and purpose of the sacrificial system.

Consider then the very first death recorded in Scripture;
"Unto Adam also and to his wife did YHWH Elohim make coats of skins, and clothed them" (Gen 3:21)
By the Scriptural account, YHWH was then the very first to take the life of an innocent victim (commit a sacrifice) to provide the skins to cover the nakedness of Adam and his wife.
But notice that they had already endeavored to "cover their nakedness" with "fig leaves sewn together" (3:7) so they were no longer naked in any physical sense, having fashioned their covering from the vegetation (if they had the technology, time and skills perhaps they would have woven, sewn, and employed some good quality cotton fabric, but they still would have none the less, stood "naked" before YHWH's eyes.)

YHWH had said unto Adam that if he should eat of the forbidden fruit, in the day that ate thereof, he should die the death (2:17)
But the record is clear that Adam did not die that day but lived on, and produced many offspring. (Gen 5:1-5)
But an innocent victim did die that day, to provide a covering for mans "nakedness" and to be an atonement (reconciliation) for his "sin". And
at the end of his days Adam died, and slept.
From that point forward, the Scriptures continue to provide numerous examples of the sacrifice of innocent victims, and rarely is the provision of food the rationale or indeed of any immediate concern.

Thus from the Scriptural perspective, sacrifices were instituted as an act of mercy and love, by a merciful and loving Elohim, who would not have any man to die.
Innocent blood still is covering, atoning and protecting all men from reaping the immediate consequences of their gainsaying and rebellion against their maker.
But here is where the difference lies, unbelieving men hold that men only die once, and that is the end of it.
Whereas the Scriptures teach that men live their lives on this earth, and at their appointed hour die in the flesh, returning to the dust from which they were formed, and whether that death comes about through age, flood, famine, war, or by the direct action or command of YHWH, they sleep until the Judgment, when ALL of them which are asleep shall be awakened, refashioned in the flesh, and raised up from their graves to stand before the throne of Judgment.
In the accomplishment of Divine purpose upon earth, men, women, children, and animals do die, this being no judgment upon them, but only a temporary removal from sufferings, and from active participation in the affairs of men, they sleep only for the time, but will awaken in glory.