Spanky

Today I was talking to a fellow-worker and we were talking about christmas. Most all of us who frequent the II know that christmas is really about the birth, re-birth of the sun (winter solstice) and not the birth of the son (biblical jesus).
Now, first off, I do not believe in a historical jesus. However, I am curious on what the bible says about his birth; that is, the proofs or non-proofs of the alleged time of his birth. What are they?

Remember: jesus is the reason for the season.

Steven Avery

Hi Spanky, qood question. Here are a couple of discussions of this question.
Often the birth of Jesus is calculated as occurring during Sukkot.

http://www.messianic.com/articles/dates.htm
Biblical Dates for Messiah's Conception and Birth

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messia.../message/11252
Christmas & Tabernacles

Which came out of a thread by Celal
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messia.../message/11243

Who put his thoughts here
http://icarusredeemed.blogspot.com/2...d_archive.html

"a Cromwellian attitude toward Christmas."

http://www.historychannel.com/exhibi...mas/real3.html
An Outlaw Christmas
In the early 17th century, a wave of religious reform changed the way Christmas was celebrated in Europe. When Oliver Cromwell and his Puritan forces took over England in 1645, they vowed to rid England of decadence and, as part of their effort, cancelled Christmas.

Which might be part of this thing on the History Channel

http://www.archaeological.org/webinfo.php?page=10143
12/24 7:00 p.m. HISTU The History of Christmas
Fascinating story of how the bawdy Roman Saturnalia, a week-long festival of food and drink that culminated on December 25, became the centerpiece of the Christian year..

Shalom,
Steven Avery
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic

Amaleq13

Depends on whether you trust an alleged former disciple or an alleged careful historian.

According to Matthew, he was born before Herod died (ie before 4BCE).

According to Luke, he was born when Quirinius took over (ie 6CE).

IMO, Richard Carrier does an excellent job explaining this as well as dealing with the typical apologetic attempts to avoid the obvious in this article.

Diogenes the Cynic

If you're looking for a specific birhday or time of year, there isn't one. Some people try to infer a September birth from Luke's account of nocturnal shepherds but both nativity stories are the utterest fiction.

As amaleq says. we can't even pin it down to a year because Matthew and Luke place their nativities ten years apart.

To throw another wrench into the works, Irenaeus said that Jesus was over 50 years old when he died so do with that what you will. (In fairness, Irenaeus also says that Jesus was crucified during the reign of Claudius, but incorrectly believes that Pilate was still governor then, so obviously he was all kinds of confused)

Clivedurdle

Was Irenaeus confused or is this further evidence of the historicising of myth? What did the church fathers say about Jesus? "Under Pontius Pilate" smells like a classic line in a hymn.