Pappy Jack

Again, absolutely, but no doubt Dave can assert that because we are further down the one-way track of genetic deterioration from the Fall than Ol' Man Noah, our crumbling decadent genomes are nowhere near as perky and all zipped-up with spruce 'n' vinegar as said Mr Noah and family's more robust genomes.

Sven

For some reason, god forget to prepare them also again alcoholism.

Sven

Strange. About two hours ago, Dave's profile said: "Replying to thread Pyramids and All That".

Apparently he gave up during reply.

Calilasseia

And if he does that, he then has to explain why we haven't become extinct before now if our genomes are so shot to pieces. Because Noah et al were post Fall and post Curse humans and presumably, if Dave wishes to continue the Fall and Curse argument, also possessed degraded genomes. Just because they were supposedly "more robust" than ours doesn't mean they weren't a heap of crap, unless you invoke some handwaving of the sort that says the Fall and the Curse only really began to take off in a big way and start eating away at our genomes in AD years or some other such nonsense. In which case, we need a mechanism for this, which we won't get of course, because Dave can't provide one, because one doesn't exist. He's left once more simply waving his Bible and saying "it's true because it says so", which puts it in the same league logically as Jeffrey Archer.

BWE

And, one more time, no dang way did humans go from 10 to millions in 600 years. Not in any natural way anyway.

Calilasseia

Bokhanovsky process?

[/Huxley reference]

BWE

I was thinking more like Mary Shelly style. [/literary pissing match ]

Withered

To me, one of the problems i have with the total destruction of Egypt, is that fact that noah allowed his sons to rebuild it in exactly the same fashion as it stood before the flood. If Egypt before the flood was so evil as to deserve being drowned, why is it that Egypt after the flood is alleged to have occurred is exactly the same in regards to history, architecture, religion, and archeology?

Why were sweeping changes not made by the mysterious super humans that repopulated the region?

There does not appear to be any break in the worship of multiple gods, and i have been unable to find a real indication of there being any rise in worship of bible god after the flood.

Why were noah and family so stupid as to risk the anger of god a second time, by allowing what must have been their immediate descendants to worship other gods, and to build temples to them?

Were the grandchildren of noah so unimpressed with the tales of their parents survival of the end of the world that they made no record of it, nor honored it in any way?

To me that indicates that not only did the people that spread across the earth immediately rebuild civilization in some way, but they also immediately began to worship the local religions of whatever region they inhabited. they then dedicated themselves to recording these new religions in documents and texts, both mundane and religious, with no discussion of what they had been through, and no warning to their descendants of what might happen if they displeased bible god.

There is not one aspect of the flood story that holds up to scrutiny.
Not even casual, just off the top of my head scrutiny.

Gullwind

To be fair, I believe Dave's argument is that all of Egyptian history happened after the flood.

This raises another question, though. If all of Egyptian history arose post flood, then the limestone that the Pyramids are built of would be from flood deposits. As I recall, the formation of limestone is an exothermic process. How did this limestone form so fast after the flood, and what happened to all the heat generated by this process?

Dave Hawkins

Of course, fractional people are silly. The 2% was an approximation based on something realistic that we know about -- a recent close-to-actual figure from the 20th century.

But let's get granular here shall we?

Year 0: Noah and his crew. 4 couples. Let's presume only 3 of them would bear children after the Flood. How many will they bear? Maybe 20 or more each, but I will have a hard time convincing you of that, so let's say 10. Let's allow 3 of them to die in childbirth and let's say 2 die in adulthood, don't procreate, etc. So let's assume each family produces 5 kids who in turn grow up and procreate.

Year 30: Shem, Ham and Japheth are done having kids and now their kids are having kids. But Noah and his wife (and their kids) have a long way to go yet before they die. So the clan is up to 8 + 15 = 23. This means 7 - 8 new couples which in turn each have 5 procreating kids.

Year 60: 7 X 5 = 35 kids in this generation, which makes for 17 new couples, 35+23=58 total people.

Year 90: 17 X 5 = 85 kids in this generation --> 42 new couples, 85+58=143 total people.

Year 120: 42 X 5 = 210 etc. etc. You get the idea.

Keep in mind that nobody has died of old age yet ... not even the old patriarch himself, Noah. We only have childbirth deaths and accidental deaths. So these numbers will get big quickly.

Following the format above ...


***DISCLAIMER***
There may be errors in this, and of course my assumptions of 10 kids and only 5 of them ending up procreating may be off. Also there may not be equal numbers of boys and girls, and there will be other irregularities. Note that Shem was 100 years old 2 years after the Flood and lived 600 years, so he would have died about Year 500 in the above chart. The later patriarchs lived progressively shorter lives placing the end of their lives also near the end of the above spreadsheet. So it seems reasonable to omit deaths by old age for purposes of approximation.

If these calculations are even close to being correct, the numbers get very big very quickly in 600 years. I would actually only need about 400 years to get a million people and much less than that if each family averaged 10 procreating kids instead of 5. Not unreasonable at all if they were genetically superior, which, I believe the evidence indicates they were. Also note that inbreeding depression would also be much less of a problem for genetically superior people groups (i.e. less harmful mutations). This may explain why the prohibitions against close marriages did not come until Moses.

OK. Shoot holes in this if you can. I know you want to :-)

****************************************

Dean ... I still have not heard your answer to my rebuttal of your "airbrush theory" of the hollowed in pyramid photo. I am waiting patiently.