Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 10-21-2009, 11:43 AM

Steve Mason in BAR: Judaism—Back to Basics

Quote:

In a search of the more than 9,000 texts available in the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae,² the noun Ioudaismos appears 342 times. Of these, all but five (i.e., 337) are in Christian texts, and 331 of those are from the third century or later. Of the five occurrences in Jewish texts, four are in a small work of only 15 chapters: 2 Maccabees (2:21, 8:1, 14:38); the other is in 4 Maccabees (4:26), which is derived from 2 Maccabees. The Latin form Iudaismus appears exclusively in Christian authors from the third century on, and there was no ancient Hebrew or Aramaic equivalent.

Let’s pause to take this in. In spite of the ubiquitous talk of ancient Judaism, the possibly corresponding ancient terms appear exclusively in Christian literature, aside from 2 and 4 Maccabees. We find no “Judaism,” then, in the many Greek and Latin texts by observers of Judea and Judeans. It does not appear in Josephus’s 30 volumes, which are devoted to explaining Judean law and culture, or in the roughly comparable library of Philo. The word is absent from Biblical and post-Biblical (apocryphal and pseudepigraphical) texts outside 2 and 4 Maccabees.

* * *

. . . Christians went through a long period of social and political vulnerability during the first and second centuries because they did not fit into existing social-political categories. (Ignatius was writing en route to his execution.) They could not say “we are a religion” because no such category existed. Nor were they—unlike the Judeans—a recognized nation (ethnos) with ancestral city, temple, altar and priest-led cult. They were merely a voluntary association, and such clubs were inherently suspect and vulnerable to local authorities.

We are always told that Judaism was "religio licita" in ancient Rome. But this may be Josephan or Christian propagandaL

Quote:

It is often asserted that the Roman empire differentiated between "lawful" (religio licita) and "illicit" (religio illicita) religions. For example, that Judaism was a religio licita and Christianity a religio illicita. The term religio licita first appears with Tertullian (160-235), in Apologia 21, and apparently "had no official connotation"^[1] and Tessa Rajak goes so far as to argue that Tertullian originated it.^[2]

There is no evidence that the Romans^[who?] spoke of Judaism as a religio licita and arguments sometimes raised^[3] that an edict of Julius Caesar granted Judaism this status is by no means accepted by all. This argument is based on the account of the Jewish historian Josephus in his Antiquities (14.211-28) but nothing there amounts to granting Judaism the status of religio licita. Both Rajak and Leonard Victor Rutgers^[4] address the problematic nature of Josephus' evidence.

ughaibu · 10-21-2009, 11:48 AM

Interesting idea.

show_no_mercy · 10-21-2009, 11:58 AM

Interesting how "Judaism" was derived from Christian slander for Jews. I wonder if Paul's ΙΟΥΔΑΙΣΜΟΣ has any relation to Mark's choice of ΙΟΥΔΑΣ for Jesus' betrayer.

lpetrich · 10-21-2009, 12:22 PM

Judas? His name could have been a symbolic one, with him representing the Jews. The term "Jew" can be traced to Greek Ioudaious, which literally means "Judean". So Ioudaismos is literally "Judean-ism". The name of the nationality / ethnicity became the name of its members' religion.

So I think that show_no_mercy may be reading too much into those words.

Iskander · 10-21-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Steve Mason in BAR: Judaism—Back to Basics

Quote:

In a search of the more than 9,000 texts available in the Thesaurus Linguae Graecae,² the noun Ioudaismos appears 342 times. Of these, all but five (i.e., 337) are in Christian texts, and 331 of those are from the third century or later. Of the five occurrences in Jewish texts, four are in a small work of only 15 chapters: 2 Maccabees (2:21, 8:1, 14:38); the other is in 4 Maccabees (4:26), which is derived from 2 Maccabees. The Latin form Iudaismus appears exclusively in Christian authors from the third century on, and there was no ancient Hebrew or Aramaic equivalent.

Let’s pause to take this in. In spite of the ubiquitous talk of ancient Judaism, the possibly corresponding ancient terms appear exclusively in Christian literature, aside from 2 and 4 Maccabees. We find no “Judaism,” then, in the many Greek and Latin texts by observers of Judea and Judeans. It does not appear in Josephus’s 30 volumes, which are devoted to explaining Judean law and culture, or in the roughly comparable library of Philo. The word is absent from Biblical and post-Biblical (apocryphal and pseudepigraphical) texts outside 2 and 4 Maccabees.

* * *

. . . Christians went through a long period of social and political vulnerability during the first and second centuries because they did not fit into existing social-political categories. (Ignatius was writing en route to his execution.) They could not say “we are a religion” because no such category existed. Nor were they—unlike the Judeans—a recognized nation (ethnos) with ancestral city, temple, altar and priest-led cult. They were merely a voluntary association, and such clubs were inherently suspect and vulnerable to local authorities.

We are always told that Judaism was "religio licita" in ancient Rome. But this may be Josephan or Christian propagandaL

Quote:

It is often asserted that the Roman empire differentiated between "lawful" (religio licita) and "illicit" (religio illicita) religions. For example, that Judaism was a religio licita and Christianity a religio illicita. The term religio licita first appears with Tertullian (160-235), in Apologia 21, and apparently "had no official connotation"^[1] and Tessa Rajak goes so far as to argue that Tertullian originated it.^[2]

There is no evidence that the Romans^[who?] spoke of Judaism as a religio licita and arguments sometimes raised^[3] that an edict of Julius Caesar granted Judaism this status is by no means accepted by all. This argument is based on the account of the Jewish historian Josephus in his Antiquities (14.211-28) but nothing there amounts to granting Judaism the status of religio licita. Both Rajak and Leonard Victor Rutgers^[4] address the problematic nature of Josephus' evidence.

The History of Chanukah
After the death of King Solomon, the kingdom of Israel got broken up into two kingdoms: Israel and Judah. Israel comprised the Ten Tribes, with Ephraim as their leader. The Kingdom of Judah consisted of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin. (For more background on this and earlier periods in Jewish history, read my article on early Jewish History.
In Hebrew, Judah was called Yehudah, after the name of the Patriarch Yehudah (Judah). The people were called "Yehudim." (Singular: Yehudi for a man, Yehudis for a woman.)
The Greeks, however, called Yehudah "Iudea." When the Roman Empire eventually replaced the Greek Empire, they, too, conquered Iudea, as you know. In Latin, Iudea became Judea; Iudeans (Yehudim) became Judeans; and our religion came to be imprecisely known as "Judaism." Eventually (I don't know when), the term "Judean" was shortened to the now familiar "Jew."
http://www.beingjewish.com/yomtov/chanukah/history.html

No Robots · 10-21-2009, 12:26 PM

This is profoundly weird and completely specious. For example, Tacitus makes specific reference to Jews: Tacitus on the Jews.

Toto · 10-21-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpetrich

.... The term "Jew" can be traced to Greek Ioudaious, which literally means "Judean". So Ioudaismos is literally "Judean-ism". The name of the nationality / ethnicity became the name of its members' religion.

...

It has also been claimed that it was Christians who forced Jews to have a "religion" as opposed to just being an ethnic group with certain cultural practices.

Iskander · 10-21-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpetrich

.... The term "Jew" can be traced to Greek Ioudaious, which literally means "Judean". So Ioudaismos is literally "Judean-ism". The name of the nationality / ethnicity became the name of its members' religion.

...

It has also been claimed that it was Christians who forced Jews to have a "religion" as opposed to just being an ethnic group with certain cultural practices.

It has been claimed? It sounds sort of fundie

show_no_mercy · 10-21-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpetrich

Judas? His name could have been a symbolic one, with him representing the Jews.

That's exactly what I wrote.

Clivedurdle · 10-21-2009, 12:45 PM

The Festival of Lights is the celebration of the victory in a nasty civil war of a fundi clique over a moderate very Greek influenced culture.

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10-21-2009, 11:48 AM	#2
ughaibu Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Japan Posts: 8,492	Interesting idea.

10-21-2009, 11:58 AM	#3
show_no_mercy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Dancing Posts: 9,940	Interesting how "Judaism" was derived from Christian slander for Jews. I wonder if Paul's ΙΟΥΔΑΙΣΜΟΣ has any relation to Mark's choice of ΙΟΥΔΑΣ for Jesus' betrayer.

10-21-2009, 12:22 PM	#4
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Judas? His name could have been a symbolic one, with him representing the Jews. The term "Jew" can be traced to Greek Ioudaious, which literally means "Judean". So Ioudaismos is literally "Judean-ism". The name of the nationality / ethnicity became the name of its members' religion. So I think that show_no_mercy may be reading too much into those words.

10-21-2009, 12:26 PM	#6
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	This is profoundly weird and completely specious. For example, Tacitus makes specific reference to Jews: Tacitus on the Jews.

10-21-2009, 12:45 PM	#10
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	The Festival of Lights is the celebration of the victory in a nasty civil war of a fundi clique over a moderate very Greek influenced culture.

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