Jeffrey Gibson

Would you please tell us exactly just what Plato's last words were? That means producing the text of these last words and citing exactly where the quote is originally attested.


Jeffrey

tis---strange

This thread bears reseblance to the late 'There has never been any evidence that discounts any Biblical event.' thread, only from the sceptic point of view. Make a claim, and tell the opposing site to prove you wrong...
Well, I claim that the Bibel was written by a fish in a reversed scuba suit... Anybody care to prove me wrong?

mountainman

It was of course Socrates' last words as reported in Plato's Phaedo, reminding Crito "to sacrifice a cock for him to Asclepius.", not Plato's words at all. Sorry about that chief.

Best wishes,


Pete Brown

Doug Shaver

True, but knowledge requires belief. You said I know something that I don't believe. That is a contradiction.

Jeffrey Gibson

Just so. But it's just another instance not only of how sloppy you are in attribution and of how unfamiliar you are with who said what in ancient literature, but of your notable tendenz to see in quotes of the ancients what you want to see and to read into ancient sources things they do not say. Case in point: contrary to what you have claimed, Socrates does not here speak of a cult, let alone speak favourably of it.

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Jeffrey

aa5874

But, you still have not produce a single bit of evidence or information to support your affirmations.

You are not making much sense. You claim that there is evidence yet you use affirmations to support your statements.

Then you now claim that it is true that belief does not require knowledge and then state that knowledge requires belief. Now is that you know about Jesus Christ, and that is why you believe there is evidence for Christianity in the first century?

So far your affirmations are baseless and have no known credible non-apologetic source of support.

mountainman

When I fuck up I admit it. What's the big deal? This issue is that the evidence says to us that Asclepius is as Greek as Homer and Socrates and is archaeologically real, and that your man Jesus H and the Boys are best explicated as phoney Roman ring-in's and part of some rather lavish literary fabrication in a later century.


By favourably I mean the Egypto-Hellenic-Roman Asclepius gets yet another citation toward a very respectable authenticity for the period in question. Are you counting citations in this matter?

When we compare the list of citations gathered over the period for Aslclepius and his networks, to the list of citations gathered together for the period in question for your man Jesus and his cult, the list looks impressive from a distance, until you realise Eusebius has in fact tendered the whole package and nothing but the package.

By respectable authenticity I mean the relative measure of histority of the therapeutae (temples attendants and priests and physicians) of the healing god Asclepius, relative to the measure of the historicity of the nation of (prenicene) christians.


Best wishes,


Pete Brown

Jeffrey Gibson

But where does Socrates/Plato use the word cult in Phaedo 118 or speak of Ascelpius as having one. I see nothing in “ὠ̂ Κρίτων, ἔφη, τῳ̂ ̓Ασκληπιῳ̂ ὀφείλομεν ἀλεκτρυόνα: ἀλλὰ ἀπόδοτε καὶ μὴ ἀμελήσητε.” that can be adduced as evidence that "he" does. Could you pont me to what it is within this text that does what you say it does?

And did Plato think that Ascelpius was an Egyptian god? Do we find any evidence before Melantho that among Greeks Asclepius was thought of as other than Greek?

Will you please provide me with an actual ancient text that shows that the Greek word for priest was actually attached to, or used as a description of the devotees of Asclepius?

Jeffrey

mountainman

What word would you use for the "religion" of the major Asclepius temple at Aegae before the 4th century? I have used the tem "cult". What term would you use to describe this phenomenom?

Michael Grant - 'The Rise of the Greeks (or via: amazon.co.uk)'
makes note that the cult of Thoth/Hermes
and its equivalent 'Imhotep/Asklepios'
was the main intellectual belief during
the time of Pythagoras.

The physicians of Egypt were well regarded by the greeks.
Imhotep is ancient. Asclepia were not unlike "public hospitals".

Best wishes,



Pete Brown

spamandham

If Ascelpius is being honored, is it not reasonable to presume the existence of a cult that honors Ascelpius ? I'm confused.